From: Ian Smith on
On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:35:45 +0100, Alex Heney <me8(a)privacy.net> wrote:

> He is incredibly unlikely to get any more than the percentage
> suggested by his own barrister, and most likely to not even get
> that much.

Indeed, since his own barrister has said the other party is entirely
at fault. I agree it is extremely unlikley that he will get more than
100%.

Out of interest, are you actually reading what is posted, or just
spouting random rubbish?

regards, Ian SMith
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From: Nick Finnigan on
Tom Crispin wrote:
>
> Does this help?
> www.johnballcycling.org.uk/misc/positions

Yes. Apparently neither of you were within the zig-zags at the time of
nor immediately before the accident.

> It wasn't me crossing the zigzags, but the van clearly intended to do
> so, and indeed would have to to reach the loading bay.

However, there also appear to be two right turns where the van pulled
out, and a prudent road user would expect a van (or taxi) driver taking
the second one to indicate for a negligible amount of time. etc.
From: Steve Firth on
Rob Morley <nospam(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 00:29:39 +0100
> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
>
> > Rob Morley <nospam(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 23:20:00 +0100
> > > %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Note that 165 and 191 make reference to two separate vehicles.
> > > > That is that in the circumstances where one vehicle has stopped
> > > > and another is moving one may not overtake either.
> > > >
> > > > And the Highway Code applies to cycles. They are specifically
> > > > included.
> > >
> > > The Highway Code is only a general guide to legislation and good
> > > practice. The relevant legislation in this case specifies that it
> > > applies only to motor vehicles.
> > >
> > > <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/240001-a.htm#24>
> > > <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#28>
> >
> > I did not state that Crispin should be prosecuted.
>
> And so the backpedalling begins.

Why are you backpedalling?

> > "Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not,
> > in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be
> > used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see
> > 'The road user and the law') to establish liability. This includes
> > rules which use advisory wording such as 'should/should not' or
> > 'do/do not'."
>
> The HC says this is a 'must' rule. 'Must' rules refer to specific
> legislation. The legislation referred to applies only to motor
> vehicles, therefore this is not a case in which the HC /may/ be
> used to establish liability, any more than a cyclist can be found
> liable for not using a seat belt.

The fac that a rule has the backing of criminal law for some users does
not mean that the rule may be ignored by all users. Do you think that it
was sensible for Crispin, the person who instructs others how to ride a
bicycle, to overtake a line of stationary traffic in the circumstances
that led to an accident?
From: Steve Firth on
Tom Crispin <kije.remove(a)this.bit.freeuk.com.munge> wrote:

>
> Does this help?
> www.johnballcycling.org.uk/misc/positions

Not a great deal.

> It wasn't me crossing the zigzags, but the van clearly intended to do
> so, and indeed would have to to reach the loading bay.

Yes, looking at that the existence of the zig-zag seems completely
irrelevant to the accident.

I'd be assessing that as 50:50 responsibility for the accident. You were
apparently overtaking on the "wrong" side of the road at a junction.
That's a foolish location to attempt to overtake a vehicle.

the van driver appears to have been impatient and also appeared to
overtake the same queue of traffic without making proper observation.
From: Tom Crispin on
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 15:07:56 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
wrote:

>The fac that a rule has the backing of criminal law for some users does
>not mean that the rule may be ignored by all users. Do you think that it
>was sensible for Crispin, the person who instructs others how to ride a
>bicycle, to overtake a line of stationary traffic in the circumstances
>that led to an accident?

Clearly, with hindsight, I would have done things differently.
However, no one ever has the option of hindsight.

One of the great advantages of commuting by bicycle is the ability to
pass stationary motor traffic. This needs to be done with great care
because, unfortunately, a great many motorists fail to look propely or
indicate before making unexpected manoeuvres.

I was wrong to overestimate the experience of the white van driver. He
was only 22 at the date of the crash and clearly had not been taught
to drive a van particularly well.

Perhaps there is a lesson in this. Drivers of vans should have
special training to look before making a manoeuvre.
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