Should I or shouldn't I?
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From: Alex Heney on 6 Jul 2008 18:12 On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 22:57:53 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: >Tom Crispin <kije.remove(a)this.bit.freeuk.com.munge> wrote: > >> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:40:21 +0100, JNugent <JN(a)NPPTG.com> wrote: >> >> >You would never expect all of the parked cars in a row next to the kerb >> >to sprout drivers, have their engines turned on and to move off one >> >after the other, all within a few seconds. >> > >> >Well, no-one normal would. >> >> 20% of deaths and serious injuries among London's cyclists are by a >> driver or passenger opening their car door into the path of a cyclist. > >And by cyclists riding too close and not paying proper attention. > >If I'm driving a car and someone opens a door and I drive into it, the >accident is my fault, not the fault of the person opening the door. >Quite why cyclists believe that the responsibility should go the other >way is beyond me. Because in the large majority of cases, it *is* mainly the fault of the person opening the door. If you are opening a vehicle door on the "traffic" side of the parked vehicle, it is your responsibility to make sure you are not opening it into the path of another road user. No other vehicle is expected to pass with *more* than the space taken by an open door (which is usually around 1metr). It would rarely be safe to be that far out into the road. -- Alex Heney, Global Villager Is "tired old cliche" one? To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
From: Periander on 6 Jul 2008 18:16 Alex Heney <me8(a)privacy.net> wrote in news:blg274dn5u835jfn4s7uhfvhpb5p5fpds9(a)4ax.com: > > If you are opening a vehicle door on the "traffic" side of the parked > vehicle, it is your responsibility to make sure you are not opening it > into the path of another road user. Road user includes pedestrians old bean, passengers can also be stuck on for this offence for giving someone a ding (and quite rightly so in my never humble opinion). -- Regards, Periander
From: Alex Heney on 6 Jul 2008 18:27 On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 00:00:22 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: >Danny Colyer <danny_colyer(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On 05/07/2008 22:57, Steve Firth wrote: >> > If I'm driving a car and someone opens a door and I drive into it, the >> > accident is my fault, not the fault of the person opening the door. >> >> And what about HC rule 239? >> "You MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check >> for cyclists or other traffic". >> >> > Quite why cyclists believe that the responsibility should go the other >> > way is beyond me. >> >> Perhaps reading the HC would help you. > >Perhaps getting a clue would help you. He has a lot more of one than you seem to. >The prohibition in the HC is on >opening the door and hitting someone or something with the door. If the >door has been opened and someone rides or drives into it then they are >in the wrong. If it has been open for some time, yes. If it is opened in such a way that they cannot readily avoid hitting it, then no. What the LAW referred to be the HC actually says (Regulation 105 of the Construction & use Regulations) is --------------------------------- No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person. ---------------------------------- If you open a door so close in front of a traveling cyclist that he is unlikely to be able to avoid it, or would have to swerve into the path of other traffic to do so, then you are certainly opening it "so as to endanger" that cyclist. > >The stupidity of cyclists seems to be without limit. Perhaps they should >be made to sit a test before being allowed on the roads? A better idea would have been to require you to sit a test before being allowed to post. -- Alex Heney, Global Villager A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
From: Alex Heney on 6 Jul 2008 18:28 On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:40:34 GMT, Periander <4rubbish(a)britwar.co.uk> wrote: >%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in >news:1ijmqdc.o45wv71p5469sN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk: > >> Danny Colyer <danny_colyer(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 05/07/2008 22:57, Steve Firth wrote: >>> > If I'm driving a car and someone opens a door and I drive into it, >>> > the accident is my fault, not the fault of the person opening the >>> > door. >>> >>> And what about HC rule 239? >>> "You MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. >>> Check for cyclists or other traffic". >>> >>> > Quite why cyclists believe that the responsibility should go the >>> > other way is beyond me. >>> >>> Perhaps reading the HC would help you. >> >> Perhaps getting a clue would help you. The prohibition in the HC is on >> opening the door and hitting someone or something with the door. If >> the door has been opened and someone rides or drives into it then they >> are in the wrong. >> >> The stupidity of cyclists seems to be without limit. Perhaps they >> should be made to sit a test before being allowed on the roads? >> > >Actually much as I like to laugh when a cyclist gets taken out as the >result of his own folly (especially if there's blood, broken bones and a >wrecked cycle) there is actually an offence of "Opening a door to the >danger of road users". Don't ask me to quote act and section it's to >late and I can't be arsed but it's there none the less. Yes, it is regulation 105 of the Construction & Use regulations. -- Alex Heney, Global Villager A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
From: Alex Heney on 6 Jul 2008 18:29
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:39:57 +0100, JNugent <JN(a)NPPTG.com> wrote: >Periander wrote: >> %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote in >> news:1ijmqdc.o45wv71p5469sN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk: >> >>> Danny Colyer <danny_colyer(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 05/07/2008 22:57, Steve Firth wrote: >>>>> If I'm driving a car and someone opens a door and I drive into it, >>>>> the accident is my fault, not the fault of the person opening the >>>>> door. >>>> And what about HC rule 239? >>>> "You MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. >>>> Check for cyclists or other traffic". >>>> >>>>> Quite why cyclists believe that the responsibility should go the >>>>> other way is beyond me. >>>> Perhaps reading the HC would help you. >>> Perhaps getting a clue would help you. The prohibition in the HC is on >>> opening the door and hitting someone or something with the door. If >>> the door has been opened and someone rides or drives into it then they >>> are in the wrong. >>> >>> The stupidity of cyclists seems to be without limit. Perhaps they >>> should be made to sit a test before being allowed on the roads? >>> >> >> Actually much as I like to laugh when a cyclist gets taken out as the >> result of his own folly (especially if there's blood, broken bones and a >> wrecked cycle) there is actually an offence of "Opening a door to the >> danger of road users". Don't ask me to quote act and section it's to >> late and I can't be arsed but it's there none the less. > >I'm sure that what you say is correct - but everyone - including >cyclists - is still under a duty to try to avoid an open door. > >No-one should expect miracles when the door is opened with an >approaching vehicle very close by, but if the vehicle can be stopped, or >if its course can be changed so as to avoid a collision, that's what the >driver or rider must do. I don't think any rational person could have any argument with that. But that does not mean that if a door is opened too close in front of him, it is his fault if he hits it. -- Alex Heney, Global Villager If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will. To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom |