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From: Free Lunch on 31 Jul 2010 09:17 On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:19:58 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >In article <ge1756ld7rcsnq220fj1pn50qkqv15rh8o(a)4ax.com>, >Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >>On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:02:22 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >> >>>In article <a6i5565ikirsfrqk8gdppt5c7l1871uaou(a)4ax.com>, >>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:47:18 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>> >>>>>In article <5v2456h9l4lmc85j3r0i92ccvlempjv9ku(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:09:23 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <n1tp46d46jla0ial53eoun6rjj4103n6n7(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:26:07 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty >>>>>>>><Then-Destroy-Everything(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>misc.transport.road: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In article <b9a03e0e-b8b9-4326-8473-b8334adb985f(a)k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>>> Larry G <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 5:33=A0pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, Dave is exactly right, he'd have to "live lower" has he >>>>>>>>>>>> puts it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> with higher energy costs - probably - depending on his income level. >>>>>>>>>>> There are guys in Europe and Japan that live just as high on the hog >>>>>>>>>>> as he does - despite the higher cost of energy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At a given income level, higher energy costs mean a lower standard of living. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not advocating higher energy costs - only pointing out that >>>>>>>>>>> people do not die or living shorter lifespans because they use 1/2 >>>>>>>>>>> what we do. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A lie (you advocated a $1 tax on gasoline) and a strawman. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> they use 1/2 what we do - and on the whole they live longer and have a >>>>>>>>>>> standard of living that is equivalent to us - though more modest on >>>>>>>>>>> the house and transportation. >>>>>>>>>> Which is to say that it is NOT an equivalent standard of living. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Given our use of energy - we could make significant cuts in it without >>>>>>>>>>> even sacrificing much anyhow because our use is so prolifigate to >>>>>>>>>>> start with. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Again, that's wrong; we will have to sacrifice much to make significant cuts >>>>>>>>>> in energy use. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I carpooled in that car instead of a 15mpg SUV solo every day. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> my energy use was 1/2 and I did not suffer because it it.. I actually >>>>>>>>>>> had money for other things.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Other things like higher taxes? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Federal taxes are the lowest they have been in half a century. >>>>>>>Lie. >>>>>> >>>>>>Look at the revenue as a percent of GDP. >>>>> >>>>>How about I look at tax rates as a percent of income instead? Because >>>>>the fact that the feds are getting less revenue because a lot more >>>>>people are unemployed reduces my tax burden not one iota. >>>> >>>>Tax rates as percent of income is fine. They are the lowest in 50 years. >>> >>>No, they aren't. They were lower in 1986. >> >>The amount that is collected is what matters. > >Amounts collected are lower because the tax is progressive and income >is down due to the recession. Right, taxes are lower. The top marginal rate is not what matters. It is the average rate that matters.
From: Free Lunch on 31 Jul 2010 09:19 On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:26:32 +0000 (UTC), Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote in misc.transport.road: >On 2010-07-31, Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:02:22 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >> Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: > >>>>Tax rates as percent of income is fine. They are the lowest in 50 years. >>> >>>No, they aren't. They were lower in 1986. >> >> The amount that is collected is what matters. > >No, government spending is what matters. That's a separate issue. >Government can get revenue >three ways: >1) Directly taking it from the people. Generally through taxes. >2) Borrowing it. (reducing the sum available for the private sector and >increasing the sum that must eventually come from 1 and 3) >3) Printing it. (reducing the value of savings and wages) Agreed. >So long as government spends people are made poorer. The >method simply varies between the three above. Government spending >is MUCH higher than it was even a couple-three years ago. But the GOP has gotten all concerned about the deficit and debt when it is good economic policy to run deficits while it was absurdly disinterested in their huge deficits when they ran the government. >Oh why did I look at this thread again? Entertainment.
From: Jim Yanik on 31 Jul 2010 09:43 Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everything(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com> wrote in news:4C538F98.5030204(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com: > On 7/30/2010 10:07 PM, Matthew Russotto wrote: >> In article <rmt65654i7kqejtq2akdan872jos9jtsi2(a)4ax.com>, >> Dave Head <rally2xs(a)att.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:27:16 -0700 (PDT), Larry G >>> <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Jul 30, 3:12 am, Dave Head <rally...(a)att.net> wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:52:42 -0400, Dave Head <rally...(a)att.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT), Otto Yamamoto >>>>>> <comrade.otto.yamam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>> But you wouldn't WANT a real solution to this, right? >>>>>>>> Interfere with the ability to tell everyone what to do... >>>>>>>> y'know... I notice you simply ignored it. Tells a lot. >>>>> >>>>>>> What I might 'want' is immaterial. I don't see any 'real >>>>>>> solution' coming down the line. >>>>> >>>>>> I knew it! Wow, can I call 'em, or what? Device to lower CO2 to >>>>>> pre-industrial levels in 10 years, and you want to ignore it. >>>>>> This is just grand. Just classic!!!! >>>>>> Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! >>>>> >>>>> And its July 30, 6 days later, and nobody wants to discuss a >>>>> possibility that we wouldn't have to spend 50 trillion dollars to >>>>> lower CO2 levels (and cart most of that money out of the USA to do >>>>> it) to pre-industrial levels, but instead could do so with a >>>>> process that would probably produce about $15 trillion dollars >>>>> worth of very high purity carbon that could be used as coal to >>>>> generate electricity with no mercury in the air, no sulphur >>>>> dioxide in the air, no radioactive effluents in the air, etc. etc. >>>>> >>>>> No, nobody on the "scare hell out of 'em so they'll give us >>>>> trillions of dollars to fix a fake problem" side of this wants to >>>>> know about a solution to their global warming scarecrow. Once >>>>> again, here's the solution: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.physorg.com/news199005915.html >>>> >>>> thanks for the link... interesting >>>> >>>> now one for you: >>>> >>>> " Nuclear Energy Loses Cost Advantage" >>>> >>>> " PARIS � Solar photovoltaic systems have long been painted as a >>>> clean way to generate electricity, but expensive compared with >>>> other alternatives to oil, like nuclear power. No longer. In a >>>> �historic crossover,� the costs of solar photovoltaic systems have >>>> declined to the point where they are lower than the rising >>>> projected costs of new nuclear plants, according to a paper >>>> published this month." >>>> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/business/global/27iht-renuke.html? >>>> src=busln >>> >>> I'm all for it. Wonder if that includes some way to store the >>> electricity overnight or over a time period within the cost of >>> solar. That's solar's problem, it doesn't work at night. But if >>> they get it to be viable, that's the way to go. then you increase your conversion losses,and increase your equipment costs. batteries cost money,and require maintenance and periodic replacement. >> >> Solar PV doesn't scale well, and any cost estimates for solar PV of >> the scale of a nuclear plant are pure fantasy. > > Individually on each home..... > I suspect they also don't account for the fact that solar panels have to be replaced every 20 years or so,at substantial cost. They do "wear out". a quick Google search shows they lose output 1-2% per year. they also must be cleaned or their output drops. that really changes their "cost-effectiveness". -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com
From: Matthew Russotto on 31 Jul 2010 22:07 In article <ki88561ibp6aj4vn8ki7qqq6ofcnkcuui6(a)4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:19:58 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: > >>In article <ge1756ld7rcsnq220fj1pn50qkqv15rh8o(a)4ax.com>, >>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>> >>> >>>On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:02:22 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>> >>>>In article <a6i5565ikirsfrqk8gdppt5c7l1871uaou(a)4ax.com>, >>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:47:18 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>>> >>>>>>In article <5v2456h9l4lmc85j3r0i92ccvlempjv9ku(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:09:23 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In article <n1tp46d46jla0ial53eoun6rjj4103n6n7(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:26:07 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty >>>>>>>>><Then-Destroy-Everything(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>>misc.transport.road: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In article <b9a03e0e-b8b9-4326-8473-b8334adb985f(a)k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>>>> Larry G <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 5:33=A0pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, Dave is exactly right, he'd have to "live lower" has he >>>>>>>>>>>>> puts it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with higher energy costs - probably - depending on his income level. >>>>>>>>>>>> There are guys in Europe and Japan that live just as high on the hog >>>>>>>>>>>> as he does - despite the higher cost of energy. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At a given income level, higher energy costs mean a lower standard of living. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not advocating higher energy costs - only pointing out that >>>>>>>>>>>> people do not die or living shorter lifespans because they use 1/2 >>>>>>>>>>>> what we do. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A lie (you advocated a $1 tax on gasoline) and a strawman. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> they use 1/2 what we do - and on the whole they live longer and have a >>>>>>>>>>>> standard of living that is equivalent to us - though more modest on >>>>>>>>>>>> the house and transportation. >>>>>>>>>>> Which is to say that it is NOT an equivalent standard of living. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Given our use of energy - we could make significant cuts in it without >>>>>>>>>>>> even sacrificing much anyhow because our use is so prolifigate to >>>>>>>>>>>> start with. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Again, that's wrong; we will have to sacrifice much to make significant cuts >>>>>>>>>>> in energy use. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I carpooled in that car instead of a 15mpg SUV solo every day. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> my energy use was 1/2 and I did not suffer because it it.. I actually >>>>>>>>>>>> had money for other things.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Other things like higher taxes? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Federal taxes are the lowest they have been in half a century. >>>>>>>>Lie. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Look at the revenue as a percent of GDP. >>>>>> >>>>>>How about I look at tax rates as a percent of income instead? Because >>>>>>the fact that the feds are getting less revenue because a lot more >>>>>>people are unemployed reduces my tax burden not one iota. >>>>> >>>>>Tax rates as percent of income is fine. They are the lowest in 50 years. >>>> >>>>No, they aren't. They were lower in 1986. >>> >>>The amount that is collected is what matters. >> >>Amounts collected are lower because the tax is progressive and income >>is down due to the recession. > >Right, taxes are lower. No, taxes are not lower. Income is lower. Taxes on income are at a local maximum. -- The problem with socialism is there's always someone with less ability and more need.
From: Free Lunch on 31 Jul 2010 23:23
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 02:07:59 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >In article <ki88561ibp6aj4vn8ki7qqq6ofcnkcuui6(a)4ax.com>, >Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >>On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:19:58 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >> >>>In article <ge1756ld7rcsnq220fj1pn50qkqv15rh8o(a)4ax.com>, >>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:02:22 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>> >>>>>In article <a6i5565ikirsfrqk8gdppt5c7l1871uaou(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:47:18 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>>>> >>>>>>>In article <5v2456h9l4lmc85j3r0i92ccvlempjv9ku(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:09:23 GMT, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew >>>>>>>>Russotto) wrote in misc.transport.road: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>In article <n1tp46d46jla0ial53eoun6rjj4103n6n7(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>>>>Free Lunch <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:26:07 -0400, Beam Me Up Scotty >>>>>>>>>><Then-Destroy-Everything(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>misc.transport.road: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In article <b9a03e0e-b8b9-4326-8473-b8334adb985f(a)k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, >>>>>>>>>>>> Larry G <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 5:33=A0pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, Dave is exactly right, he'd have to "live lower" has he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> puts it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with higher energy costs - probably - depending on his income level. >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are guys in Europe and Japan that live just as high on the hog >>>>>>>>>>>>> as he does - despite the higher cost of energy. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At a given income level, higher energy costs mean a lower standard of living. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not advocating higher energy costs - only pointing out that >>>>>>>>>>>>> people do not die or living shorter lifespans because they use 1/2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> what we do. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A lie (you advocated a $1 tax on gasoline) and a strawman. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they use 1/2 what we do - and on the whole they live longer and have a >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard of living that is equivalent to us - though more modest on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the house and transportation. >>>>>>>>>>>> Which is to say that it is NOT an equivalent standard of living. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Given our use of energy - we could make significant cuts in it without >>>>>>>>>>>>> even sacrificing much anyhow because our use is so prolifigate to >>>>>>>>>>>>> start with. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Again, that's wrong; we will have to sacrifice much to make significant cuts >>>>>>>>>>>> in energy use. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I carpooled in that car instead of a 15mpg SUV solo every day. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> my energy use was 1/2 and I did not suffer because it it.. I actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> had money for other things.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Other things like higher taxes? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Federal taxes are the lowest they have been in half a century. >>>>>>>>>Lie. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Look at the revenue as a percent of GDP. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How about I look at tax rates as a percent of income instead? Because >>>>>>>the fact that the feds are getting less revenue because a lot more >>>>>>>people are unemployed reduces my tax burden not one iota. >>>>>> >>>>>>Tax rates as percent of income is fine. They are the lowest in 50 years. >>>>> >>>>>No, they aren't. They were lower in 1986. >>>> >>>>The amount that is collected is what matters. >>> >>>Amounts collected are lower because the tax is progressive and income >>>is down due to the recession. >> >>Right, taxes are lower. > >No, taxes are not lower. Income is lower. Taxes on income are at a >local maximum. Not even close. |