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From: Beam Me Up Scotty on 17 Jul 2010 14:44 On 7/17/2010 7:14 AM, Larry G wrote: > On Jul 16, 8:01 pm, Dave Head <rally...(a)att.net> wrote: >> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:35:33 -0700 (PDT), Larry G >> >> <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> so there are no environmental groups you support? >> >> I've never considered supporting one, so no, not currently. If I find >> one that is attempting to repeal expensive and unnecessary >> environmental rules, I might even join it. > > but you'd think that a group that wants to "undo" environment laws is > a group that "supports" the environment? The Paradox is that the freedom we have has made us more environmentally aware than the USSR with all their regulation ever was.... Freedom creates Environmental awareness so you Eco-Nazis are harming the environment while believing you are saving it. Freedom is always the best way.....
From: Larry G on 17 Jul 2010 15:35 On Jul 17, 2:44 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy- Everyth...(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com> wrote: > On 7/17/2010 7:14 AM, Larry G wrote: > > > On Jul 16, 8:01 pm, Dave Head <rally...(a)att.net> wrote: > >> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:35:33 -0700 (PDT), Larry G > > >> <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> so there are no environmental groups you support? > > >> I've never considered supporting one, so no, not currently. If I find > >> one that is attempting to repeal expensive and unnecessary > >> environmental rules, I might even join it. > > > but you'd think that a group that wants to "undo" environment laws is > > a group that "supports" the environment? > > The Paradox is that the freedom we have has made us more > environmentally aware than the USSR with all their regulation ever was..... > > Freedom creates Environmental awareness so you Eco-Nazis are harming the > environment while believing you are saving it. > > Freedom is always the best way..... Watching a recent report in Afghanistan - there were houses that cost a million dollars - and outside of each one is an enormous pile of stinking garbage, no electricity and they run generators and no paved roads, just dirt - with Land Rovers and BMWs parked in the courtyard... and this country is going to "nation-build" them in our likeness using our military. No EPA over there for sure.
From: Brent on 17 Jul 2010 16:32 On 2010-07-17, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everything(a)Blackhole.NebulaX.com> wrote: > The Paradox is that the freedom we have has made us more > environmentally aware than the USSR with all their regulation ever was.... Way I see it is that pollution is a violation of property rights. In the USSR people had no property rights, thus pollution was much more wide spread and far more harmful. The USA uses a model where the victims have to prove harm. Initially this left most people SOL and companies with political power would pollute at will. Eventually people were able to prove harm so the system shifted gears. Now the government decides what amounts pose a danger. This allows for a fascist (economic sense) system where those companies close to the government can continue to pollute under limits set for them by the government. (new companies or small unconnected competition is left with all sorts of compliance difficulties) Regular people are still SOL, their property rights are still largely ignored, but the situation is somewhat better provided someone isn't trying to start a business that has a connected and polluting competition. Private property brings about the long term interest of owners to protect the value of that property and the respect/protection of it prevents others from polluting it. Sure, some people will want to destroy their own property, pollute their own property. But when they are held responsible for what leaves their property they will find the containment/clean up costs to be too great to be so irresponsible with their own property.
From: Jim Yanik on 17 Jul 2010 17:30 Michael Coburn <mikcob(a)verizon.net> wrote in news:i1srnr38e4(a)news3.newsguy.com: > On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 17:18:50 +0000, Brent wrote: > >> On 2010-07-17, Larry G <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> On Jul 17, 12:16 pm, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>>> On 2010-07-17, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > if we do not trust institutions to make the calculations and >>>> > decisions that you discuss above, what does that mean? >>>> >>>> Trust in institutions is just asking to be taken advantage of. >>>> Trusting an institution is going to going make running that >>>> institution highly attractive to the self-serving sociopaths and >>>> criminals. >>>> >>>> > make sense what I am asking? If you do not trust the institutions >>>> > that we have to perform the assigned missions - then who do you >>>> > trust to do it? >>>> >>>> Maybe we shouldn't have very powerful large institutions where >>>> keeping tabs on them is practically impossible and doing anything >>>> about them even more so. >>>> >>>> > and if you don't trust any of them other than the military - does >>>> > that mean that the military should be in charge of the country? >>>> >>>> I don't trust the military either. >>> >>> so... we have the most powerful country in the world - and it's >>> people have lost their trust of it's government? >> >> You tell me, what has government done to DESERVE trust? At every >> level there is corruption. On every topic it lies to us to one degree >> or another. What has it done to DESERVE trust? >> >>> Oh.. and DAve... you oughta check out just how many "civilian" DOD >>> there are in "cushy" air conditioned offices - GS-13's that making >>> 70-80K and don't know how to work the copy machine or the difference >>> between a Predator and an MRAP. >> >> The parasite class is large, what's your point? War is a racket, that >> is what it is at it's core. The profits of the few the costs to the >> many. >> >>> so.. no one in this conversation really thinks the military should >>> be in charge of the country? that's a relief.... >> >> A standing army is the greatest threat to liberty, to paraphrase. >> There's a lot of truth in that. > > > So get it fixed. Demand at least a doubling of the membership of the > House of Representatives such that the people are properly > represented. If you can actually get an appointment with your > representative to discuss your issues and if you can get together with > your neighbors you mean like Citizens United? the CORPORATION that the gov't tried to silence through unconstitutional campaign finance laws. > and cause the defeat of a representative that is _NOT_ > representing you and your neighbors then you will have an actual > "republican form of government". In districts of 650 thousand people > YOU are not going to be represented. Only big money will be > represented. Why is this not obvious to all of us?????? > > if the House has too many members,NOTHING would ever get done. you'd want 870 (or more)House members? Our problem is; 1:no term limits. Congress was never meant to be a career. 2:no recall process. We need to be able to recall elected officials that are doing a really bad job.(I'd include POTUS in that,too) 3:Gerrymandering districts to suit special interests. 4:education taken over by "progressives". Heck,we can't even get these schmucks to READ the bills they vote on. There's nothing wrong with our institutions,it's the people we've selected to run them,and that's a fault of our socialized(communized) education process. We're actually moving backwards in education,because our schools have been taken over by "progressives"(communists) that are more interested in indoctrination than education. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com
From: Dave Head on 17 Jul 2010 19:22
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:14:08 -0700 (PDT), Larry G <gross.larry(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Jul 17, 12:16�pm, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> On 2010-07-17, Larry G <gross.la...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > if we do not trust institutions to make the calculations and decisions >> > that you discuss above, what does that mean? >> >> Trust in institutions is just asking to be taken advantage of. Trusting >> an institution is going to going make running that institution highly >> attractive to the self-serving sociopaths and criminals. >> >> > make sense what I am asking? If you do not trust the institutions that >> > we have to perform the assigned missions - then who do you trust to do >> > it? >> >> Maybe we shouldn't have very powerful large institutions where keeping >> tabs on them is practically impossible and doing anything about them >> even more so. >> >> > and if you don't trust any of them other than the military - does that >> > mean that the military should be in charge of the country? >> >> I don't trust the military either. > >so... we have the most powerful country in the world - and it's people >have lost their trust of it's government? We never did trust it, so no, we haven't lost trust in it. No one should ever trust a government, any government. That is why the FF's wanted the people to have the right to keep and bear arms, so if the government did what governments are famous for, which is to enslave the people, the people could say no. >Oh.. and DAve... you oughta check out just how many "civilian" DOD >there are in "cushy" air conditioned offices - GS-13's that making >70-80K and don't know how to work the copy machine or the difference >between a Predator and an MRAP. GS-13's that work for the DoD make quite a bit more than $70k -$80K. But we're not trusting them, we're trusting the military... sort of... And they most certainly do know that difference. The ones I work with can tell you the minutia of differences in the launch control software for the Tomahawk missile in its various versions for Aegis, submarine, etc. >so.. no one in this conversation really thinks the military should be >in charge of the country? that's a relief.... Nope. Civilians should be in charge of the country, but we can't trust them too far. Eternal vigilence is the price of freedom, and that includes watching the gov't to see what they're up to, too. |