From: Stephen Sprunk on
Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> I've driven to/from work, I've done the all-transit trips to/from work
> when my car has needed major repairs, and I've done the combo drive to
> the park and ride and then transit to and from work.
>
> Driving *is* total freedom, even in some cases where transit may
> actually get to/from work faster.

You have an odd idea of what "freedom" means.

> You mention getting stuck in a traffic jam, and being jammed in traffic
> isn't good. But in a car, one can use alternate routes if the main route
> is impacted by traffic--exit the freeway and use side streets for
> example, or take a freeway bypass instead of the main freeway, or take a
> toll road.

During rush hour, the side streets, the bypasses, and toll roads are all
horribly congested as well. There is _no_ route that is uncongested,
because there are millions of other lemmings trying to optimize their
own commute just like you, with the result of uniform congestion.

> In a light rail vehicle, the rails are the route.

Right--and your trip always takes the same amount of time regardless of
the number of passengers.

> Light rail and transit buses run on fixed schedules/frequencies. Miss a
> run, it could be a 15 minutes, 30 minutes or 1 hour wait for the next
> run.

Or, during peak hours, when most passengers will be riding, it may be as
little as 2-5 minutes. That is a _lot_ less than the additional time
you'll lose stuck in traffic using your car for the same trip.

Off-peak, yes, this is often a problem.

> Driving, one can leave as early or as late as they choose to,
> depending on traffic conditions,

.... which means you _can't_ leave as early or as late as you choose to;
you must leave early to pad your trip to account for congestion,
accidents, construction, detours, etc.

> Lunch time! One didn't bring their lunch? Unless bus service is
> excellent near their workplace, plan on eating at the employee
> cafeteria, or else either walking or getting a ride from someone if they
> want to go out to eat. This isn't an issue when driving. Choose where to
> go based on food choice and traffic conditions, then just drive there,
> get lunch, and drive back.

Transit in general works best when it serves walkable neighborhoods.

Walking to a parking garage, navigating your way out with a flood of
other people doing the same, paying, driving a few blocks to restaurant
in horribly congested traffic, wolfing your food down, and reversing the
entire process in less than an hour doesn't sound like an appealing
alternative--if it's even possible.

> After work... what about those 24 hour transit schedules? Very few if
> any exist, so now have to worry about last buses/trains home if working
> late or simply want to do something after work.

Most transit systems run until at least midnight and start up again by
4am, which means the _vast_ majority of to-/from-work trips can be
served. If your shift happens to start/end during that period, well,
you're one of the lucky few that might be able to drive in reasonable
traffic, compared to the gridlock the other 20 hours per day.

> Driving, not an issue,
> just go whereever, for however long, and drive home when done. Driving,
> work as late as needed, the ride home their own vehicle in the employee
> parking lot whenever work is done.

.... as long as it doesn't matter to you how long or how frustrating the
trip is.

> Therefore, car drivers are definitely not a "slave" to anyone's
> schedules when compared to transit riders.

The most insidious form of slavery is when one manages to convince the
slaves that they're not really slaves.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
From: Brent on
On 2009-11-12, Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, The Real Bev <bashley101(a)gmail.com>
> said:
>
>>OTOH, how long were those poor saps trapped on the train that ran into the
>>nominalloy-suicidal loon who stopped his car on the track and then ran?

> Um, OK.

> Train crashes like that happen, what, once every few years?

If only METRA could be so lucky.

> There is a SigAlert EVERY SINGLE DAY on one or more freeways, and even
> when there is no TC to block lanes many freeways still look more like
> parking lots.

As if these people will be less stupid around trains.

> A co-worker of mine lives in the Riverside area and commutes to Orange
> County. When she saw I was taking the train to work she decided to try
> it. She told me she wishes she had done it YEARS ago; not only does
> the train take less time than driving on the 91, but the trip is far
> less stressful. She even gets to sleep on the train. :)

I don't think anyone argued it doesn't work for some people. The
opposite exists for other people. Where they had some nightmarish
transit commute that took much longer than it did by driving.


From: Stephen Sprunk on
Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> That's a mention of being stuck in a traffic break which, when compared
> to the daily commutes when traffic breaks do not usually occur,
> qualifies as a corner case/edge case in the daily commute.

What are you smoking? Congestion, construction, accidents, etc. are a
_daily_ occurrence in every major or even mid-sized city. Radio
stations devote entire segments to describing all the traffic problems
during rush hour, and they usually don't even cover the "normal" issues,
i.e. roads moving at half their posted speed or less.

> That's because even when an accident closes lanes, some lanes usually
> remain open and traffic may be stop and go, but during the times it is not
> stopped the traffic still moves at a slow speed.

Yes, that's how "stop and go" traffic works: the traffic stops for a
minute or so, then moves at a slow speed for a few seconds, then repeats
endlessly. You're hardly supporting your argument here.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
From: hancock4 on
On Nov 11, 9:10 pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
wrote:
> >Except there are many freeways and Interstates in NJ that are not toll
> >roads.
>
> Sure, there's I-295 in the northwest, and I-195 across the center.
> But a rather large proportion of NJs major highways are toll.

A very quick look at a road map of NJ shows:

I-80, I-287, I-280, I-78, free segment of GSP

NJ 15, NJ 21, NJ 3, NJ 18, NJ 42, NJ 55

Notably, many of these roads carry extremely high volumes of traffic.
From: hancock4 on
On Nov 12, 12:12 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
<dwrous...(a)nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> > No more idiotic than trying to claim that automobiles provide freedom
> > of movement to go anywhere at any time. Car drivers are as much a
> > slave to other peoples' schedules as transit riders.
>
> You're totally wrong about that.


> Driving *is* total freedom, even in some cases where transit may actually
> get to/from work faster.
>
> You mention getting stuck in a traffic jam, and being jammed in traffic
> isn't good. But in a car, one can use alternate routes if the main route is
> impacted by traffic--exit the freeway and use side streets for example, or
> take a freeway bypass instead of the main freeway, or take a toll road. In a
> light rail vehicle, the rails are the route. In a transit bus, the route is
> usually fixed and usually doesn't detour significantly just because of
> traffic jams. (BRT routes tend to use freeway HOV lanes, but not all bus
> routes are designed as bus rapid transit.)

When a main highway is jammed, motorists jam up the alternate routes
as well. The alternate routes aren't able to handle the high volume
of detoured traffic.

When I-95 was closed due to failed support, traffic was detoured onto
local streets. It was a horrible nightmare until the support was
fixed.


> Light rail and transit buses run on fixed schedules/frequencies. Miss a run,
> it could be a 15 minutes, 30 minutes or 1 hour wait for the next run.
> Driving, one can leave as early or as late as they choose to, depending on
> traffic conditions, and there isn't the issue of missing a fixed
> schedule/frequency transit vehicle run.

Yes, "depending on traffic conditions".

In developed areas, many transit routes run very frequently, like
every 2-3 minutes.


> Lunch time! One didn't bring their lunch? Unless bus service is excellent
> near their workplace, plan on eating at the employee cafeteria, or else
> either walking or getting a ride from someone if they want to go out to eat.
> This isn't an issue when driving. Choose where to go based on food choice
> and traffic conditions, then just drive there, get lunch, and drive back.

In developed areas, there are numerous lunch places within walking
distance. In modern suburban office parks, there is NOTHING. No
stores of any kind. No sidewalks; each building surrounded by a moat
of parking and drainage, no way to get to another building even that
building had a little restaurant.

So, at lunch time all the people get in their cars. Traffic jam!
Which I learned the hard way doing business at such a modern office
park. I spent the bulk of my lunch hour in a traffic jam trying to
get out, and in another one trying to get back in.