From: Doug on
On 23 May, 17:00, "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message
>
> news:09a95adb-36a8-4e27-bd2b-80603cd37720(a)q8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 23 May, 15:26, Bod <bodro...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >> > On 23 May, 09:49, "GT" <a...(a)b.c> wrote:
> >> >> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message
>
> >> >>news:8add536f-2520-4b07-8034-97f341e2f969(a)z33g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >>> On 21 May, 09:59, boltar2...(a)boltar.world wrote:
> >> >>>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 09:54:07 +0100
> >> >>>> Conor <co...(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> "The computer systems used to control modern cars are very
> >> >>>>>>> vulnerable
> >> >>>>>>> to attack, say experts.
> >> >>>>> And just how do they get access to it, Doug?
> >> >>>> Doug seems to forget that his bicycle is vulnerable to a large stick
> >> >>>> in
> >> >>>> the wheel spokes. Beware of those nasty trees doug!
> >> >>> Unlike the defective car driver though the cyclist would be unlikely
> >> >>> to inure anyone but himself.
> >> >> Most car accidents don't injure anyone - they are just minor bumps.
> >> >> Unlike
> >> >> most bicycle accidents where people tend to injure hands and knees.
>
> >> > They are not euphemistic 'accidents' they are 'crashes'. Car crashes
> >> > are far more dangerous than bicycle crashes and kill very many mmore
> >> > people.
>
> >>   Change the record Doug.
>
> > OK how about getting back to the thread title? Have you ever
> > experienced a computer crash? If so, can you imagine what might happen
> > with a computer which controls speed and braking, etc?
>
> No computer controls braking and if one controlling speed fails then the car
> will stop.
>
> Happy now?
>
Don't you think it is about time you read the link at the start of
this thread before posting any more of your nonsense?

--
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.
From: Tony Dragon on
Doug wrote:
> On 23 May, 17:00, "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:09a95adb-36a8-4e27-bd2b-80603cd37720(a)q8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On 23 May, 15:26, Bod <bodro...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 23 May, 09:49, "GT" <a...(a)b.c> wrote:
>>>>>> "Doug" <jag...(a)riseup.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:8add536f-2520-4b07-8034-97f341e2f969(a)z33g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> On 21 May, 09:59, boltar2...(a)boltar.world wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 09:54:07 +0100
>>>>>>>> Conor <co...(a)gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "The computer systems used to control modern cars are very
>>>>>>>>>>> vulnerable
>>>>>>>>>>> to attack, say experts.
>>>>>>>>> And just how do they get access to it, Doug?
>>>>>>>> Doug seems to forget that his bicycle is vulnerable to a large stick
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the wheel spokes. Beware of those nasty trees doug!
>>>>>>> Unlike the defective car driver though the cyclist would be unlikely
>>>>>>> to inure anyone but himself.
>>>>>> Most car accidents don't injure anyone - they are just minor bumps.
>>>>>> Unlike
>>>>>> most bicycle accidents where people tend to injure hands and knees.
>>>>> They are not euphemistic 'accidents' they are 'crashes'. Car crashes
>>>>> are far more dangerous than bicycle crashes and kill very many mmore
>>>>> people.
>>>> Change the record Doug.
>>> OK how about getting back to the thread title? Have you ever
>>> experienced a computer crash? If so, can you imagine what might happen
>>> with a computer which controls speed and braking, etc?
>> No computer controls braking and if one controlling speed fails then the car
>> will stop.
>>
>> Happy now?
>>
> Don't you think it is about time you read the link at the start of
> this thread before posting any more of your nonsense?
>
> --
> UK Radical Campaigns.
> http://www.zing.icom43.net
> A driving licence is a licence to kill.

You mean the link that goes to a web page that says "The researchers
showed how to kill a car engine remotely, turn off the brakes so the car
would not stop and make instruments give false readings. "

--
Tony Dragon
From: Adrian on
Doug <jagmad(a)riseup.net> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

>> The other thing to consider is the major difference between dedicated
>> embedded computers and generic PCs. PCs mostly crash due to user error,
>> primarily in the installation (often unintentional) of poor-quality
>> software. With embedded systems, that's not an option - when did your
>> washing machine, fridge or freeview box last crash?

> Freeview boxes quite often.

Really? If so, then I suspect it's an aged one that's experiencing
hardware issues.

> I don't waste energy with a washing machine

Hands up who's surprised? <looks around> Nope, don't see any hands.

> and my little fridge is not computer controlled.

Then it'll be ancient and hugely inefficient.

> Anyway, embeded might still malfunction due to hardware or power supply
> faults, etc., leaving the driver no longer in control.

No, leaving the driver with a mechanical fail-safe.
From: boltar2003 on
On 24 May 2010 09:01:48 GMT
Adrian <toomany2cvs(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>Doug <jagmad(a)riseup.net> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
>saying:
>
>>> The other thing to consider is the major difference between dedicated
>>> embedded computers and generic PCs. PCs mostly crash due to user error,
>>> primarily in the installation (often unintentional) of poor-quality
>>> software. With embedded systems, that's not an option - when did your
>>> washing machine, fridge or freeview box last crash?
>
>> Freeview boxes quite often.
>
>Really? If so, then I suspect it's an aged one that's experiencing
>hardware issues.

Or its made by Humax.

B2003


From: Adrian on
Doug <jagmad(a)riseup.net> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

>> A car computer doesn't fail or crash and leave the driver with no
>> control.

> How do you know? Source?

Because it's a requirement of type approval that the systems must "fail
safe" - there must be a purely physical/mechanical connection that
ensures that the vehicle can still be steered, and there must be two
separate hydraulic circuits that ensure that the vehicle can still be
braked.

Even if the vehicle's battery fell out of the bottom, you could still
steer and brake.