From: john hamilton on

"Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_z%Wn.52690$sD7.36524(a)hurricane...
> john hamilton wrote:
>> "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:so_Wn.52676$sD7.48811(a)hurricane...
>>> Chris Whelan wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:36:05 +0100, john hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Chris Whelan" <cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:b5IWn.40837$U%7.377(a)hurricane...
>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:37:58 +0100, john hamilton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would anyone know in what year the Toyota Corollas switched from
>>>>>>> timing belts to timing chains please. Since we are thinking of
>>>>>>> buying a used one, and would need to know if it ( a belt) has
>>>>>>> been renewed. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 97-02 - depends on engines size; 1.3 and all diesels are belt, 1.4
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> 1.6 petrol are chain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 02-07 - all petrol are chain, all diesel are belt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Source: Autodata.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that it's not unknown for the chaincam ones to shatter the
>>>>>> plastic sprockets, leading to the same damage as a broken belt.
>>>>>> This has happened on some cars under three years old.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Variable valve timing engines can apparently suffer from high oil
>>>>>> consumption after 40K - up to 1 litre every 600 miles. Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ell after hearing about that oil consumption , I have to tell you
>>>> I'm
>>>>> looking for a cheapish six or seven year old medium sized car, with
>>>>> the emphasis on *reliability*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it now down to a 1.3 or 1.6 ford focus, or something else that
>>>>> you would you recommend ? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> ITYM 1.4 Focus?
>>>>
>>>> In the main, Corollas are reliable, but dull. Allegedly, some UK
>>>> built ones are not so reliable.
>>>>
>>>> I need to declare an interest; I've owned two Focuses over the last
>>>> 11 years, and would buy another tomorrow, so my comments need to be
>>>> seen in that light.
>>>>
>>>> The Focus has an excellent reliability record; Google will tell you
>>>> more. I had my first one from new, a 1.8, for 10 years. I did
>>>> 100,000 miles in it. Apart from routine servicing and consumables,
>>>> it cost less than 100UKP in parts.
>>>>
>>>> It never failed to start, and never broke down. The only thing that
>>>> stopped it unintentionally was driving it into the back of a
>>>> Discovery, or I would still have it!
>>>>
>>>> I replaced it last year with an '03 1.6. The 1.6 engine is slightly
>>>> smoother, slightly more economical, but I sometimes miss the extra
>>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>> The 1.6 has a tall top gear. 5th is almost a "motorway only" one. I
>>>> don't find it a problem, but if you regularly travel with the car
>>>> fully loaded, and mostly on hilly main roads, the 1.8 would be a
>>>> better bet.
>>>>
>>>> Forget the 1,4; you will have a job finding one, and they are just
>>>> too slow.
>>>>
>>>> Lots of these cars have been sold, so you should have lots of
>>>> choice; find a good '04 one in a spec you like, service it
>>>> properly, and I doubt you will be disappointed.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Things that I see often faulty on Focus: clutch master cylinder,
>>> tailgate struts, water pumps, window regulators, vehicle speed
>>> sensors, dashboards, clutches. Thermostat housings.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> So the Top Man is saying to go for the Corolla? (or something else)
>
> Whatever one person recommends there will be someone else says nay.
> I like driving Focuses, but I hate the high expense of their running
> costs.
> I would not buy a modern Ford or Vauxhall(full stop).
> I would buy almost any Japanese built car, their quality is so much
> higher. My neighbours Avensis is 12 years old and the only 'fault' was
> when the battery died at ten years old. It drives like new, the bonnet is
> only opened once a year and it uses no oil in that time. My Lexus is 14
> years old, runs like a watch, no oil consumption, no rust, still original
> exhaust (as is the neighbours avensis)!!! but did need a radiator (leaf
> trap design) Another neighbour has a CRV: only fault after 10 years was
> the back box pipe rotted through, but it was easily welded back together.
> Customers Nissan Primera, only ever needed oil and filters over a 6 year
> period and was like new despite being 15 years old (she has now stopped
> driving)
> I do not find recurring faults on Japanese cars, but I do on 'English'
> ones like Ford and Vauxhall, and don't get me started on Mondeo faults. I
> dislike newer French cars intensely mainly due to difficulty and expense
> of servicing. Modern Volvos seem to have lots of faults, likewise modern
> Mercedes. I don't see any BMW nowadays but have found them to be well
> built in the past. VAG stuff used to be OK but now seems to be going
> downhill.
>
> Top marque for me is Toyota group followed by Honda.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm on my third toyota and have been pleased with all of them, which is why
my original post was enquiring about the chain belt on a corolla.

But I am now alarmed with what is being said by Chris Whelan about this
known fault with these newer vv engines burning 1 litre of oil every
600miles.

What would be the best way to get further information about this fault and
how expensive it would be to fix it?

Another car we were considering is the BMW 3 series, would that prove a
reliable and relatively cheap car to run at about six or seven years old? Or
am I safer sticking to a Toyota? Thanks for any further advice.




From: Stu on
On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:44:26 GMT, Chris Whelan
<cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 11:07:49 +0100, Stu wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> The 1.6 Focus we've only had for a few weeks but so far I'm pleased with
>> it. The only real weakness I've found out about so far is that the HT
>> leads only last about 40k miles. Mine is at that mileage now and running
>> OK so far. I've replaced the plugs but not the leads yet - I'll probably
>> do them before the weather turns cold.
>
>Yes, but the plugs last 40K as well, so the cost over the life of the car
>isn't so bad.
>
>BTW, leaving the leads until it misfires can cause the ignition coil to
>fail, and they are over 100UKP, so it might be best to do them sooner
>rather than later.
>
>Chris

I hear you. Cashflow is rather poor until I next get paid, what with
the purchase of the car, the service items and then the new discs &
pads. I'll get them changed soon, I promise! :-)


Stu
From: john hamilton on

"john hamilton" <bluestar95(a)mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:i0icp5$hh0$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:_z%Wn.52690$sD7.36524(a)hurricane...
>> john hamilton wrote:
>>> "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:so_Wn.52676$sD7.48811(a)hurricane...
>>>> Chris Whelan wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:36:05 +0100, john hamilton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Chris Whelan" <cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:b5IWn.40837$U%7.377(a)hurricane...
>>>>>>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:37:58 +0100, john hamilton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would anyone know in what year the Toyota Corollas switched from
>>>>>>>> timing belts to timing chains please. Since we are thinking of
>>>>>>>> buying a used one, and would need to know if it ( a belt) has
>>>>>>>> been renewed. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 97-02 - depends on engines size; 1.3 and all diesels are belt, 1.4
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 1.6 petrol are chain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 02-07 - all petrol are chain, all diesel are belt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Source: Autodata.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that it's not unknown for the chaincam ones to shatter the
>>>>>>> plastic sprockets, leading to the same damage as a broken belt.
>>>>>>> This has happened on some cars under three years old.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Variable valve timing engines can apparently suffer from high oil
>>>>>>> consumption after 40K - up to 1 litre every 600 miles. Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ell after hearing about that oil consumption , I have to tell you
>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> looking for a cheapish six or seven year old medium sized car, with
>>>>>> the emphasis on *reliability*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it now down to a 1.3 or 1.6 ford focus, or something else that
>>>>>> you would you recommend ? Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> ITYM 1.4 Focus?
>>>>>
>>>>> In the main, Corollas are reliable, but dull. Allegedly, some UK
>>>>> built ones are not so reliable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to declare an interest; I've owned two Focuses over the last
>>>>> 11 years, and would buy another tomorrow, so my comments need to be
>>>>> seen in that light.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Focus has an excellent reliability record; Google will tell you
>>>>> more. I had my first one from new, a 1.8, for 10 years. I did
>>>>> 100,000 miles in it. Apart from routine servicing and consumables,
>>>>> it cost less than 100UKP in parts.
>>>>>
>>>>> It never failed to start, and never broke down. The only thing that
>>>>> stopped it unintentionally was driving it into the back of a
>>>>> Discovery, or I would still have it!
>>>>>
>>>>> I replaced it last year with an '03 1.6. The 1.6 engine is slightly
>>>>> smoother, slightly more economical, but I sometimes miss the extra
>>>>> performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 1.6 has a tall top gear. 5th is almost a "motorway only" one. I
>>>>> don't find it a problem, but if you regularly travel with the car
>>>>> fully loaded, and mostly on hilly main roads, the 1.8 would be a
>>>>> better bet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Forget the 1,4; you will have a job finding one, and they are just
>>>>> too slow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lots of these cars have been sold, so you should have lots of
>>>>> choice; find a good '04 one in a spec you like, service it
>>>>> properly, and I doubt you will be disappointed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Things that I see often faulty on Focus: clutch master cylinder,
>>>> tailgate struts, water pumps, window regulators, vehicle speed
>>>> sensors, dashboards, clutches. Thermostat housings.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> So the Top Man is saying to go for the Corolla? (or something else)
>>
>> Whatever one person recommends there will be someone else says nay.
>> I like driving Focuses, but I hate the high expense of their running
>> costs.
>> I would not buy a modern Ford or Vauxhall(full stop).
>> I would buy almost any Japanese built car, their quality is so much
>> higher. My neighbours Avensis is 12 years old and the only 'fault' was
>> when the battery died at ten years old. It drives like new, the bonnet
>> is only opened once a year and it uses no oil in that time. My Lexus is
>> 14 years old, runs like a watch, no oil consumption, no rust, still
>> original exhaust (as is the neighbours avensis)!!! but did need a
>> radiator (leaf trap design) Another neighbour has a CRV: only fault after
>> 10 years was the back box pipe rotted through, but it was easily welded
>> back together. Customers Nissan Primera, only ever needed oil and filters
>> over a 6 year period and was like new despite being 15 years old (she has
>> now stopped driving)
>> I do not find recurring faults on Japanese cars, but I do on 'English'
>> ones like Ford and Vauxhall, and don't get me started on Mondeo faults.
>> I dislike newer French cars intensely mainly due to difficulty and
>> expense of servicing. Modern Volvos seem to have lots of faults,
>> likewise modern Mercedes. I don't see any BMW nowadays but have found
>> them to be well built in the past. VAG stuff used to be OK but now seems
>> to be going downhill.
>>
>> Top marque for me is Toyota group followed by Honda.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------The last post on this thread in Toyota Club Australia seems to havepinpointed the problem with the toyota vvti engines. It shows picture ofpistons.http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11848Essentially it says:Only having four small holes in the piston oil ring gab did not allow enoughof the oil to be scraped off. Ending in sticky oil rings and high oilconsumption in engines 2000 to 2005. Concerns Engine nos 3zz-fe and 1zz-fe.In 2005 it was changed to eight larger holes. It is especially troublesomewith cars with poor oil changes or used in cold conditions or makingfrequent short journeys.

From: Stu on
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 07:09:18 +0100, "john hamilton"
<bluestar95(a)mail.invalid> wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------The last post on this thread in Toyota Club Australia seems to havepinpointed the problem with the toyota vvti engines. It shows picture ofpistons.http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11848Essentially it says:Only having four small holes in the piston oil ring gab did not allow enoughof the oil to be scraped off. Ending in sticky oil rings and high oilconsumption in engines 2000 to 2005. Concerns Engine nos 3zz-fe and 1zz-fe.In 2005 it was changed to eight larger holes. It is especially troublesomewith cars with poor oil changes or used in cold conditions or makingfrequent short journeys.

3ZZ-FE is the 1.6 Corolla engine
1ZZ-FE is the 1.8 Corolla engine

So based on what you've found, it might be wise to avoid a 1.8, and
only consider a 1.6 if there's evidence of an engine replacement
having been carried out by Toyota. They did this FOC on all the
affected cars, so long as they had a FTSH, but they never recalled
them, so it depends on whether a previous owner has suffered with the
problem and approached Toyota or not.

Glad to hear that SWMBO's car isn't affected by this issue - she has a
VVT-i engine, but it's the 1.5 engine code 1NZ-FE (fitted in a Yaris).

Why not consider a Honda Civic? Their reputation for quality &
reliability is very similar to that of Toyota.


Stu
From: Kostas Kavoussanakis on
On Thu, 1 Jul 2010, Mrcheerful wrote:

> Things that I see often faulty on Focus: clutch master cylinder, tailgate
> struts, water pumps, window regulators, vehicle speed sensors, dashboards,
> clutches. Thermostat housings.

Surely door locks (having a mind of their own) as well? :-)

--

Kostas (2/2 in the family, one in Scotland one in Greece)