From: Steve W. on
Ray O wrote:

>
> Starting with 2013 MY vehicles made after September 1, 2012, EDR data
> format and minimum data collected will be standardized and the method
> for retrieving the data will have to be made public. I'm not sure if
> that means that the devices used to retrieve the data will be
> universal or not. This doesn't mean that all vehicles will have
> EDR's, just that if it does have one, it will have to meet minimum
> standards.
>
> The challenge is that although the data belongs to the vehicle owner,
> interpretation of the data is beyond the average vehicle owner's
> capabilities, and probably beyond just about everyone without an
> automotive engineering background so even if you could easily access
> the data, you would probably have to pay someone to interpret the
> data correctly. This is kind of like saying that anyone could buy an
> EKG or ECG machine, but it takes training to be able to use the data
> the machines produce.

Actually the data I have seen doesn't take much training to read.

For instance

Br.Sw. - on/OFF
ABS - active/INACTIVE
WS - RF-55 LF-54 RR-55 LR-54
Seat - LF-O/A/D RF-U/D/X
Seat - LR-U/D/X MR-U/D/X RR-U/D/X
TPS% - 12
Speed(mph)(TS)- 55
RPM - 1750
Sup.Res. - DS- DEP. PS- DEP.

is the format that the unit I have shows GM family data (It shows a LOT
more but I don't want to type it) This is pulled from the SRS ECM. It
shows the data in about 1/4 second intervals for about 10 seconds prior
to and after airbag activation.

I like how automobiles are just now being required to have this stuff.
It has been on OTR trucks for at least 5 years and is required on ALL
new fire apparatus as of this year.

--
Steve W.
From: Tom Adams on
On Mar 5, 11:30 am, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> Tom Adams wrote:
> > On Mar 4, 9:42 pm, john <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th!
>
> >> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was
> >> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not
> >> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that
> >> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal.
>
> >> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar
> >> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden
> >> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of
> >> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts.
>
> >> Full article at:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-12944...
>
> > Toyota's EDRs probably are lousy.  The main reason for car makers
> > putting in an EDR in the first place was for accident analysis to
> > avoid liability and sort our fact from fiction.  The fact that Toyota
> > has had trouble doing this for the accelerator problem is evidence of
> > lack of useful data in the EDR. Its not like Toyota can't read the
> > black box in their own cars.
>
> Most of the EDR data I have read or seen off vehicles is pretty good info..
> For most GM vehicles it shows a LOT of info that really isn't needed for
> accident use as well.
> The last one I read was from an Escalade and showed all of the same info
> from the ECM that you would get reading the ECM with a good scan tool.
> Plus it showed the brake status, ABS status, wheel speed data, seat belt
> info, air bag info and what sensors set off the bags.
>
> I would bet a BIG chunk of money that Toyotas can show all the same
> data. I would also suspect that they would rather NOT have anyone read
> the data from the cars involved because it probably would hurt them a
> LOT.  If it was favorable data they would trot it out and show the
> public, but if you read most of the items in the news every time they
> have been ordered to show the data in court they have settled the case
> out of court. Not a good sign.
>

No car company give up the EDR data unless they have to so nothing new
here.

But Toyota would watn to read the data, why have the EDR box if you
don't want to read it?

From: dsi1 on
On 3/5/2010 10:21 AM, Jeff Strickland wrote:

>
> When MSoft or Apple develope products that can kill me while you are using
> them, then we can discuss whether the codesets they use should be
> proprietary or not. Right now, automakers are producing products that can
> kill you if used the way they are intended, and they are hiding behind the
> idea that the data stored is their data or your data.
>
> Soon or later is the problem. It should be sooner rather than later.
>

It will happen sooner than later so consider your wish granted. There's
no doubt in my mind that the government will mandate that all cars shall
have this electronic monitoring using the rational that this product can
kill you as justification. Just remember that you asked for it.

The truth is that soon, many consumer products will be recording our
behaviors and I don't much care for that. Even hearing aid are recording
data these days. That's modern life for you. :-)

>
>

From: Steve W. on
Tom Adams wrote:
> On Mar 5, 11:30 am, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
>> Tom Adams wrote:
>>> On Mar 4, 9:42 pm, john <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th!
>>>> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was
>>>> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not
>>>> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that
>>>> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal.
>>>> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar
>>>> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden
>>>> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of
>>>> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts.
>>>> Full article at:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-12944...
>>> Toyota's EDRs probably are lousy. The main reason for car makers
>>> putting in an EDR in the first place was for accident analysis to
>>> avoid liability and sort our fact from fiction. The fact that Toyota
>>> has had trouble doing this for the accelerator problem is evidence of
>>> lack of useful data in the EDR. Its not like Toyota can't read the
>>> black box in their own cars.
>> Most of the EDR data I have read or seen off vehicles is pretty good info.
>> For most GM vehicles it shows a LOT of info that really isn't needed for
>> accident use as well.
>> The last one I read was from an Escalade and showed all of the same info
>> from the ECM that you would get reading the ECM with a good scan tool.
>> Plus it showed the brake status, ABS status, wheel speed data, seat belt
>> info, air bag info and what sensors set off the bags.
>>
>> I would bet a BIG chunk of money that Toyotas can show all the same
>> data. I would also suspect that they would rather NOT have anyone read
>> the data from the cars involved because it probably would hurt them a
>> LOT. If it was favorable data they would trot it out and show the
>> public, but if you read most of the items in the news every time they
>> have been ordered to show the data in court they have settled the case
>> out of court. Not a good sign.
>>
>
> No car company give up the EDR data unless they have to so nothing new
> here.

Not sure what your saying. Toyota and Honda are the only two mentioned
who DON'T allow the data to be read easily. You can buy the reader and
the software NOW for most of the others.

>
> But Toyota would watn to read the data, why have the EDR box if you
> don't want to read it?
>


--
Steve W.
From: Scott Dorsey on
Steve W. <csr684(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> No car company give up the EDR data unless they have to so nothing new
>> here.
>
>Not sure what your saying. Toyota and Honda are the only two mentioned
>who DON'T allow the data to be read easily. You can buy the reader and
>the software NOW for most of the others.

Mostly that's because people have put a lot of effort into reverse-engineering
the interfaces. And even then, the information is sometimes doubtful.

The BMW dealer can get a lot more information out of the box than you can
get with even the most expensive third-party scan tools. They are probably
the worst of the set in that regard, really.

But even GM doesn't make all the information available, and while folks have
pretty well reverse-engineered the GM tools, there's still a lot of stuff
you just can't see.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."