From: chuckcar on
"Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in
news:holrdv$r31$1(a)news.eternal-september.org:

>
> "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D48A821FC7F4chuck(a)127.0.0.1...
>> "Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:hok4u6$ke2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>>
>>> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18...
>>>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually
>>>> impossible.
>>
>>> I've asked them numerous times what from the transmission would
>>> make
>>> that happen...some kind of sensor with a feedback into the motor?
>>> They would not give me a straight answer on this, but it sure makes
>>> me
>>> wonder....
>>>
>> My wild guess is that you simply were not talking to anyone who
>> actually
>> knew.
>>
>
> Well, their reactions to the problem were far too quick for me to
> believe it was just good customer service. The dealer is a good 20-25
> mins away, and they were there in 30 from the time I hung up the
> phone. Even my daughter was saying "wow, they got here quick!", and
> we had a freebie rental car not long after that.
>
Oh, I'm sure you got someone who could immediately talk to a tow truck
driver, but that certainly isn't the same as you talking to the actual
mechanic that worked on your car is it?

Anyone would know that it as a severe problem that would have to be
fixed immediately and made the vehicle unsafe. You just talked to
someone competent at the dealership is all.

As for actual *cause*, I'll leave that to the mechanics here, but I have
my doubts it could *only* be one thing.

--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
From: Stewart on

"chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message
news:Xns9D48ADB5C8AB4chuck(a)127.0.0.1...
> "Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in
> news:holrdv$r31$1(a)news.eternal-september.org:
>
>>
>> "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D48A821FC7F4chuck(a)127.0.0.1...
>>> "Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:hok4u6$ke2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18...
>>>>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually
>>>>> impossible.
>>>
>>>> I've asked them numerous times what from the transmission would
>>>> make
>>>> that happen...some kind of sensor with a feedback into the motor?
>>>> They would not give me a straight answer on this, but it sure
>>>> makes
>>>> me
>>>> wonder....
>>>>
>>> My wild guess is that you simply were not talking to anyone who
>>> actually
>>> knew.
>>>
>>
>> Well, their reactions to the problem were far too quick for me to
>> believe it was just good customer service. The dealer is a good
>> 20-25
>> mins away, and they were there in 30 from the time I hung up the
>> phone. Even my daughter was saying "wow, they got here quick!",
>> and
>> we had a freebie rental car not long after that.
>>
> Oh, I'm sure you got someone who could immediately talk to a tow
> truck
> driver, but that certainly isn't the same as you talking to the
> actual
> mechanic that worked on your car is it?
>
> Anyone would know that it as a severe problem that would have to be
> fixed immediately and made the vehicle unsafe. You just talked to
> someone competent at the dealership is all.
>
> As for actual *cause*, I'll leave that to the mechanics here, but I
> have
> my doubts it could *only* be one thing.
>
> --
> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

Yes, it could have been a combination of things...but they replaced
the transmission they had just recently replaced. I guess I just need
to keep digging.


From: C. E. White on

"Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hok4u6$ke2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18...
>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible.
>>
>> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>
>>
>> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the
>> design
>> of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, not
>> possible
>> to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable it.
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>>
>
> Now I'm not sure about Toyota, but there was something disturbing about my
> daughters car, a 2005 Saturn Vue. GM had a recall on the CVT
> transmissions in these. Of course, since they went through bankruptcy GM
> believes that they no longer need to honor the recall, but anyway, I will
> digress.....
>
> The dealer replaced the transmission (GM did pay 50%), and for the first
> few days, the car was fine. About 5 days after bringing the car home from
> the shop, while in the garage she started the vehicle one morning. The
> engine raced on it's own, and the speedo was reading about 50 mph even
> though the car was in park and the pedal wasn't being pressed. She turned
> it off, and called me in...and I started it up and the same thing
> happened.
>
> I called the dealer and explained what happened. The rep put me on hold,
> came back about 3 minutes later and told me in no uncertain terms not to
> drive the car (which I pretty much figured myself, duh), they will pick it
> up. They were at my house with a tow truck within half an hour, took the
> car and gave us a rental until another replacement transmission arrived
> and was installed.
>
> I've asked them numerous times what from the transmission would make that
> happen...some kind of sensor with a feedback into the motor? They would
> not give me a straight answer on this, but it sure makes me wonder....

I was the unfortunate owner of Vue with the CVT transmission as well. I
also got a new transmission (and promptly traded off the car).

The control system on those cars was very complicated since the ECM altered
both the engine speed and the transmission gear ratio based on the vehicle
speed and accelerator pedal position. As a wild guess, I'd suspect the
vehicle speed sensor was hosed and the engine controller was attempting to
match the engine speed and transmission gear ratio to the false road speed
reading - even though the car was not moving.

In addition to the new transmission at around 38,000 miles, my Vue had also
had the transmission in for another recall early on. Basically GM just
screwed the pooch on that CVT. In theory it was a good idea, in practice the
GM design sucked. My parents had a Ford Freestyle with a ZF supplied CVT and
it never had a problem, so I know it can be done. I also think Nissans sells
a number of vehicles with CVTs and I don't recall hearing that those had a
lot of problems (ditto for Honda and Toyota). Maybe the GM CVT was just
overstressed behind a 2 liter engine.

I was actually satisfied with the Vue for the first 3 years I owned it. I
did have to take it in to have the CVT programmed during that time, but as
long as I was the principal driver it seemed OK. However, after my Son
started driving, the CVT didn't last three months. Neither did the horn, or
several other items. My final conclusion was that the Vue was designed for
little old lady school teachers.

Ed

From: cuhulin on
Leonardo DaVinci sketched the first CVT in 1490.
DAF (the Netherlands) was the first to have CVTs in the cars they built.
I would like to own one of those old DAF cars, a DAF Daffodil car.
http://www.ritzsite.nl
cuhulin

From: Stewart on

"C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:_eudncfJquWzTzLWnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...
>
> "Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hok4u6$ke2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18...
>>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually
>>> impossible.
>>>
>>> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html>
>>>
>>> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates
>>> the design
>>> of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by design, not
>>> possible
>>> to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify or disable it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger
>>>
>>
>> Now I'm not sure about Toyota, but there was something disturbing
>> about my daughters car, a 2005 Saturn Vue. GM had a recall on the
>> CVT transmissions in these. Of course, since they went through
>> bankruptcy GM believes that they no longer need to honor the
>> recall, but anyway, I will digress.....
>>
>> The dealer replaced the transmission (GM did pay 50%), and for the
>> first few days, the car was fine. About 5 days after bringing the
>> car home from the shop, while in the garage she started the vehicle
>> one morning. The engine raced on it's own, and the speedo was
>> reading about 50 mph even though the car was in park and the pedal
>> wasn't being pressed. She turned it off, and called me in...and I
>> started it up and the same thing happened.
>>
>> I called the dealer and explained what happened. The rep put me on
>> hold, came back about 3 minutes later and told me in no uncertain
>> terms not to drive the car (which I pretty much figured myself,
>> duh), they will pick it up. They were at my house with a tow truck
>> within half an hour, took the car and gave us a rental until
>> another replacement transmission arrived and was installed.
>>
>> I've asked them numerous times what from the transmission would
>> make that happen...some kind of sensor with a feedback into the
>> motor? They would not give me a straight answer on this, but it
>> sure makes me wonder....
>
> I was the unfortunate owner of Vue with the CVT transmission as
> well. I also got a new transmission (and promptly traded off the
> car).
>
> The control system on those cars was very complicated since the ECM
> altered both the engine speed and the transmission gear ratio based
> on the vehicle speed and accelerator pedal position. As a wild
> guess, I'd suspect the vehicle speed sensor was hosed and the engine
> controller was attempting to match the engine speed and transmission
> gear ratio to the false road speed reading - even though the car was
> not moving.
>
> In addition to the new transmission at around 38,000 miles, my Vue
> had also had the transmission in for another recall early on.
> Basically GM just screwed the pooch on that CVT. In theory it was a
> good idea, in practice the GM design sucked. My parents had a Ford
> Freestyle with a ZF supplied CVT and it never had a problem, so I
> know it can be done. I also think Nissans sells a number of vehicles
> with CVTs and I don't recall hearing that those had a lot of
> problems (ditto for Honda and Toyota). Maybe the GM CVT was just
> overstressed behind a 2 liter engine.
>
> I was actually satisfied with the Vue for the first 3 years I owned
> it. I did have to take it in to have the CVT programmed during that
> time, but as long as I was the principal driver it seemed OK.
> However, after my Son started driving, the CVT didn't last three
> months. Neither did the horn, or several other items. My final
> conclusion was that the Vue was designed for little old lady school
> teachers.
>
> Ed

Well, we did get 90k out of the first one.....not a record....but yes,
it is time for it to go.