Toyota's electronic throttle, and..
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From: Dillon Pyron on 5 Apr 2010 00:25 Followups set because you post to a.a.h and then dumped it for a followup. Thus spake chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> : >Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in >news:Xns9D46DE616F236tegger(a)208.90.168.18: > >> chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in >> news:Xns9D46D713F7AC1chuck(a)127.0.0.1: >> >>> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in >>> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18: >>> >>>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually impossible. >>>> >>>> <http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html> >>>> >>>> The author does not mention it, but the NHTSA closely regulates the >>>> design of the electronic throttle and its firmware. It is, by >>>> design, not possible to "hack" into the firmware in order to modify >>>> or disable it. >>>> >>> No. You'd have to have to have the pin that enables erasing/rewriting >>> of the EEPROM/EAPROM IC used and the hardware (electric and >>> electronic) to support it to be able to do it. One *could* however >>> physically take the ROM out and completely rewrite it, if you could >>> rebuild the module you destroy by doing this. That is entirely >>> possible and anyone could do it with enough technical knowledge, >>> ability and the right pieces. Anyone can buy a PROM programmer. >> >> Of course. And you could take a roll of sheet steel and turn it into a >> car body; you could turn a steel billet into a fully-automatic >> firearm; you could turn a bag of lawn fertilizer into a bomb. >>> >Yes, that was partially my point. The other part was that there simply >is no way to flash the ROM like some trojan would do to some internet >noobs router. When you say ROM you mean PROM, right? One doesn't "flash" ROM, one fabs it. As in a ROM is hard silicon with no programmable features. > >>> That's all beyond the scope of such an article of course, but it >>> shows what is involved in doing it sucessfully. >> >> Surely, but nobody's alleging tampering. Instead the allegations are >> of defects from the factory, and that's where the silliness comes in. >> >Perhaps, I'll reserve my judgement on that until I see some real >conclusions in this Toyota mess. It could easily be minor bugs in the >actual ROMS however. Extremely doubtful, but always a possibility. -- - dillon I am not invalid The more I drink, the less I think. The less I think, the better I feel. The better I feel, the more I drink. And so goes the circle of life.
From: Dillon Pyron on 5 Apr 2010 00:30 Thus spake "Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> : > >"chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message >news:Xns9D48A821FC7F4chuck(a)127.0.0.1... >> "Stewart" <gortamus(a)gmail.com> wrote in >> news:hok4u6$ke2$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: >> >>> >>> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >>> news:Xns9D46D48D312C4tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>>> ...just why Sudden Unintended Acceleration is virtually >>>> impossible. >> >>> I've asked them numerous times what from the transmission would >>> make >>> that happen...some kind of sensor with a feedback into the motor? >>> They would not give me a straight answer on this, but it sure makes >>> me >>> wonder.... >>> >> My wild guess is that you simply were not talking to anyone who >> actually >> knew. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) ) > >Well, their reactions to the problem were far too quick for me to >believe it was just good customer service. The dealer is a good 20-25 >mins away, and they were there in 30 from the time I hung up the >phone. Even my daughter was saying "wow, they got here quick!", and >we had a freebie rental car not long after that. > >While there may be "failsafe" mechanisms in place for sudden and >unwanted acceleration, just what would make the speedometer read at 50 >MPH and the engine race while in park that would be part of the >transmission? Some kind of speed feedback sensor? I would have to >believe that if this happened while driving the vehicle, it could have >created a dangerous situation. My phone calls and emails to Saturn >have gone unanswered....but I will eventually find an answer. > It is quite possible that the fault lay not in the part but in the instalation. Say a harness connection that wasn't 100% solid or some such. Do you know for absolute fact that the replacement replacement really was a "new" (likely rebuilt) tranny? It could also have been an issue of a bad rebuild. -- - dillon I am not invalid The more I drink, the less I think. The less I think, the better I feel. The better I feel, the more I drink. And so goes the circle of life.
From: chuckcar on 5 Apr 2010 17:26 Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron(a)austin.rr.com> wrote in news:ajoir5hdhkg07je70khhr8bp6je7benl9b(a)4ax.com: > Followups set because you post to a.a.h and then dumped it for a > followup. > I stopped doing followup-to headers in this group with a short number of groups at the request of another poster here - specifically the very person I was replying to. Three groups that are pretty closely related is not something one needs to worry about in that regard anyways IMHO. > Thus spake chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> : > >>> Of course. And you could take a roll of sheet steel and turn it into >>> a car body; you could turn a steel billet into a fully-automatic >>> firearm; you could turn a bag of lawn fertilizer into a bomb. >>>> >>Yes, that was partially my point. The other part was that there simply >>is no way to flash the ROM like some trojan would do to some internet >>noobs router. > > When you say ROM you mean PROM, right? One doesn't "flash" ROM, one > fabs it. As in a ROM is hard silicon with no programmable features. > The term ROM refers to EAPROMS, PROMS (that you erase with UV light) and hardwired ROMS that can't be erased. PROMS can only be written to by completely erasing them and re-writing the whole ROM. That's completely different from RAM, where you can modify any byte or bit. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
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