From: C. E. White on

"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:9Z-dnePBxLT6Eq3RnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:IfKdnfvMR8CBJ7LRnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...
>>
>> "ben91932" <benteaches(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:9828270c-1d94-410f-b92e-3fce0106c562(a)v13g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Toyota is pro-active on defects,
>>
>> You certainly have a different vision of being pro-active. > Ed
>
> Clearly, I do have a different vision. I owned GM products for years.
> Each of them had some shitto defect that GM dodged.
> Toyota has not treated me that way at all.

Hopefully our good fortune will continue.

Ed

From: ben91932 on
On Jul 3, 3:30 pm, "C. E. White" <cewhi...(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
> "ben91932" <benteac...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9828270c-1d94-410f-b92e-3fce0106c562(a)v13g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Toyota is pro-active on defects,
>
> You certainly have a different vision of being pro-active. As far as I can
> tell Toyota has mostly been pro-active when it comes to hiding defects.

I am certain that Toyota has made mistakes, as have every mfgr.
The point is that from my experience they are much better than the
others.
Ben
From: ben91932 on
Hi Ed... et al

"I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles"

My father once told me that you cannot win an argument over religion,
politics or homosexuality; and I'm amending that to include car
brands!
Everyone has their favorites and most cant be dissuaded...

Another hunk of evidence for Toyota:
The Toyota/Lexus techs I know spend about 75% of their time on
customer pay jobs; routine maint. repairs etc.(I'm sure that will not
include the throttle recall madness)
The Ford/Lincoln techs I know spend 75% of the time doing warantee
repairs (99% of which are not recalls)
It is a completely different corporate culture. Ford is perfectly
happy shipping a car with a bunch of issues and then pay the dealer to
fix them. Toyota strives to make them right out of the factory door.

I know these observations are a tad dated but it still speaks volumes
about the way the companies think.
Ben
PS I own and drive a Toyota, Dodge, Chevy Nissan and Lincoln


From: hls on

"ben91932" <benteaches(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d518adcd-80a7-4ac5-8bf3-7ea495c20b4a(a)s24g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Ed... et al
>
> "I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles"
>
> My father once told me that you cannot win an argument over religion,
> politics or homosexuality; and I'm amending that to include car
> brands!
> Everyone has their favorites and most cant be dissuaded...
>
> Another hunk of evidence for Toyota:
> The Toyota/Lexus techs I know spend about 75% of their time on
> customer pay jobs; routine maint. repairs etc.(I'm sure that will not
> include the throttle recall madness)
> The Ford/Lincoln techs I know spend 75% of the time doing warantee
> repairs (99% of which are not recalls)
> It is a completely different corporate culture. Ford is perfectly
> happy shipping a car with a bunch of issues and then pay the dealer to
> fix them. Toyota strives to make them right out of the factory door.
>
> I know these observations are a tad dated but it still speaks volumes
> about the way the companies think.
> Ben
> PS I own and drive a Toyota, Dodge, Chevy Nissan and Lincoln

I have owned and driven Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Pontiac Fiero.
Also Ford Mustangs and Thunderbirds, one Dodge van, Fiat, Saab, VW,
Hillman, and maybe a few others that dont come to me at the moment.

The Fiero was VERY troublesome as were all the Buicks I ever owned.

The only Ford I ever had trouble with was a 428 CJ Mustang....and that
is self explanatory. Ford rolling stock was pretty reliable, but they
tended
to be lacking in body integrity, I guess.


Olds was not too much different from Buick, but
I didnt keep these Olds company cars long enough for them to be troublesome.

The Dodge, with the 318 engine, was one of the most troublefree vehicles
I ever owned, although it rode like a truck.

Of the two Fiats, one was a great car and the other was a fiat.

My experience with our two new Toyota has been really good. Not a
single problem in the Avalon, now over three years old, nor in the
Solara, just a year old.

When we sold our last Buick, I said "never again", until they dedicate
themselves to making a quality product. People say that they are
now quite good. I gave GM 20+ years of loyalty when they were a POS
and GM did NOT stand behind their products.

If GM survives and really makes a product that is quality over the longer
term, I might buy again. But having been bitten so many times by GM,
it is hard to forget that there is "snake" in their ancestry.


From: C. E. White on

"ben91932" <benteaches(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d518adcd-80a7-4ac5-8bf3-7ea495c20b4a(a)s24g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Ed... et al
>
> "I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles"
>
> My father once told me that you cannot win an argument over religion,
> politics or homosexuality; and I'm amending that to include car
> brands!
> Everyone has their favorites and most cant be dissuaded...
>
> Another hunk of evidence for Toyota:
> The Toyota/Lexus techs I know spend about 75% of their time on
> customer pay jobs; routine maint. repairs etc.(I'm sure that will not
> include the throttle recall madness)
> The Ford/Lincoln techs I know spend 75% of the time doing warantee
> repairs (99% of which are not recalls)
> It is a completely different corporate culture. Ford is perfectly
> happy shipping a car with a bunch of issues and then pay the dealer to
> fix them. Toyota strives to make them right out of the factory door.
>
> I know these observations are a tad dated but it still speaks volumes
> about the way the companies think.
> Ben
> PS I own and drive a Toyota, Dodge, Chevy Nissan and Lincoln

I can't speak for all cars, just the one owned by me and close relatives. My
parents owned Fords for most of my life. I can remember one bad Ford in all
that time, and "bad" was relative to the others. It had a weird noise that
sounded like an exhaust leak. The dealer spent months and never fixed it.
Eventually it was discovered that a portion of the sound deedening material
had been damaged. Once it was repaired, the noise was gone. Now my Mother,
Sisters, SO, and SO's daughter all own Toyotas. None have had any
significant problems, although the SO's RAV4 has a couple of minor issue
(bad cruise control and non-operable rear compartment rear seat back
releases). But then the last three Fords I have owned have had zero
problems. I have a Fusion with 70,000 males and it has not had a single
repair. Most significant trip to the dealer was to have the ATF changed. My
F150 did have a problem with a tire pressure sensor, but I suspect that it
was damaged when I had a flat tire fixed (dealer replaced it for free
anyhow). I've only owned two GM vehicles, a Saturn Vue and a beat up worn
out Firebird (my son's car, bought with 140,000+ miles showing on the
odometer). Neither were great, but I didn't think either was terrible
(although after my son started driving the Vue did start to take a real
beating). I've owned Ford, Toyotas, Mazdas, Nissans, and an assortment of
British Cars. Family members have owned Fords, Toyotas, VWs, and Hondas. My
only concrete rule coming form my personal observations is, stay away from
VWs. Otherwise I've not seen much difference in reliability or longevity
between the various major brands. I've considered several Toyota models in
the past (most recently a Tundra) but generally mark them off the list
because they never seem to fit quite right, and they often have horrible
control layouts. I am tall/large person, so I suppose I am outside of
Toyota's target Customer Group, or at least it seems that way - especially
when I end up driving one of the three RAV4's in my immediate family (how do
they make a car so big on the outside and so cramped on the inside?). I can
get in almost any American or European designed car and find a comfortable
driving position. Even Nissan and Mazda seem to make cars I can fit into. On
the other hand the only Toyota I have driven recently that I was truly
comfortable in is my Mother's Highlander (actually a very nice vehicle that
has remarkable power considering it has a 4 cylinder engine and had fuel
economy as good as my AWD Fusion).

My point is, it you buy a Toyota because a bunch of Toyota enthusiast over
hype the quality of the vehicles, you are setting yourself up to be a
sucker. There is no way a Camry is worth thousand more than a Fusion or a
Altima. Even if you believe the most pro-Toyota statistics, the differences
between the brands is trivial. The prices often are not. Buy based on your
needs, not on some silly claims that Toyota are especially good. And BTW,
the same surveys that often claim Toyota cars have better quality also claim
Toyota has poor Customer service...go figure.

Ed