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From: C. E. White on 4 Jul 2010 15:17 "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message news:9Z-dnePBxLT6Eq3RnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:IfKdnfvMR8CBJ7LRnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >> >> "ben91932" <benteaches(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:9828270c-1d94-410f-b92e-3fce0106c562(a)v13g2000prn.googlegroups.com... >> >>> Toyota is pro-active on defects, >> >> You certainly have a different vision of being pro-active. > Ed > > Clearly, I do have a different vision. I owned GM products for years. > Each of them had some shitto defect that GM dodged. > Toyota has not treated me that way at all. Hopefully our good fortune will continue. Ed
From: ben91932 on 6 Jul 2010 08:40 On Jul 3, 3:30 pm, "C. E. White" <cewhi...(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > "ben91932" <benteac...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:9828270c-1d94-410f-b92e-3fce0106c562(a)v13g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > > > Toyota is pro-active on defects, > > You certainly have a different vision of being pro-active. As far as I can > tell Toyota has mostly been pro-active when it comes to hiding defects. I am certain that Toyota has made mistakes, as have every mfgr. The point is that from my experience they are much better than the others. Ben
From: ben91932 on 7 Jul 2010 10:47 Hi Ed... et al "I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles" My father once told me that you cannot win an argument over religion, politics or homosexuality; and I'm amending that to include car brands! Everyone has their favorites and most cant be dissuaded... Another hunk of evidence for Toyota: The Toyota/Lexus techs I know spend about 75% of their time on customer pay jobs; routine maint. repairs etc.(I'm sure that will not include the throttle recall madness) The Ford/Lincoln techs I know spend 75% of the time doing warantee repairs (99% of which are not recalls) It is a completely different corporate culture. Ford is perfectly happy shipping a car with a bunch of issues and then pay the dealer to fix them. Toyota strives to make them right out of the factory door. I know these observations are a tad dated but it still speaks volumes about the way the companies think. Ben PS I own and drive a Toyota, Dodge, Chevy Nissan and Lincoln
From: hls on 7 Jul 2010 11:07 "ben91932" <benteaches(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:d518adcd-80a7-4ac5-8bf3-7ea495c20b4a(a)s24g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > Hi Ed... et al > > "I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles" > > My father once told me that you cannot win an argument over religion, > politics or homosexuality; and I'm amending that to include car > brands! > Everyone has their favorites and most cant be dissuaded... > > Another hunk of evidence for Toyota: > The Toyota/Lexus techs I know spend about 75% of their time on > customer pay jobs; routine maint. repairs etc.(I'm sure that will not > include the throttle recall madness) > The Ford/Lincoln techs I know spend 75% of the time doing warantee > repairs (99% of which are not recalls) > It is a completely different corporate culture. Ford is perfectly > happy shipping a car with a bunch of issues and then pay the dealer to > fix them. Toyota strives to make them right out of the factory door. > > I know these observations are a tad dated but it still speaks volumes > about the way the companies think. > Ben > PS I own and drive a Toyota, Dodge, Chevy Nissan and Lincoln I have owned and driven Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Pontiac Fiero. Also Ford Mustangs and Thunderbirds, one Dodge van, Fiat, Saab, VW, Hillman, and maybe a few others that dont come to me at the moment. The Fiero was VERY troublesome as were all the Buicks I ever owned. The only Ford I ever had trouble with was a 428 CJ Mustang....and that is self explanatory. Ford rolling stock was pretty reliable, but they tended to be lacking in body integrity, I guess. Olds was not too much different from Buick, but I didnt keep these Olds company cars long enough for them to be troublesome. The Dodge, with the 318 engine, was one of the most troublefree vehicles I ever owned, although it rode like a truck. Of the two Fiats, one was a great car and the other was a fiat. My experience with our two new Toyota has been really good. Not a single problem in the Avalon, now over three years old, nor in the Solara, just a year old. When we sold our last Buick, I said "never again", until they dedicate themselves to making a quality product. People say that they are now quite good. I gave GM 20+ years of loyalty when they were a POS and GM did NOT stand behind their products. If GM survives and really makes a product that is quality over the longer term, I might buy again. But having been bitten so many times by GM, it is hard to forget that there is "snake" in their ancestry.
From: C. E. White on 7 Jul 2010 23:06 "ben91932" <benteaches(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:d518adcd-80a7-4ac5-8bf3-7ea495c20b4a(a)s24g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > Hi Ed... et al > > "I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles" > > My father once told me that you cannot win an argument over religion, > politics or homosexuality; and I'm amending that to include car > brands! > Everyone has their favorites and most cant be dissuaded... > > Another hunk of evidence for Toyota: > The Toyota/Lexus techs I know spend about 75% of their time on > customer pay jobs; routine maint. repairs etc.(I'm sure that will not > include the throttle recall madness) > The Ford/Lincoln techs I know spend 75% of the time doing warantee > repairs (99% of which are not recalls) > It is a completely different corporate culture. Ford is perfectly > happy shipping a car with a bunch of issues and then pay the dealer to > fix them. Toyota strives to make them right out of the factory door. > > I know these observations are a tad dated but it still speaks volumes > about the way the companies think. > Ben > PS I own and drive a Toyota, Dodge, Chevy Nissan and Lincoln I can't speak for all cars, just the one owned by me and close relatives. My parents owned Fords for most of my life. I can remember one bad Ford in all that time, and "bad" was relative to the others. It had a weird noise that sounded like an exhaust leak. The dealer spent months and never fixed it. Eventually it was discovered that a portion of the sound deedening material had been damaged. Once it was repaired, the noise was gone. Now my Mother, Sisters, SO, and SO's daughter all own Toyotas. None have had any significant problems, although the SO's RAV4 has a couple of minor issue (bad cruise control and non-operable rear compartment rear seat back releases). But then the last three Fords I have owned have had zero problems. I have a Fusion with 70,000 males and it has not had a single repair. Most significant trip to the dealer was to have the ATF changed. My F150 did have a problem with a tire pressure sensor, but I suspect that it was damaged when I had a flat tire fixed (dealer replaced it for free anyhow). I've only owned two GM vehicles, a Saturn Vue and a beat up worn out Firebird (my son's car, bought with 140,000+ miles showing on the odometer). Neither were great, but I didn't think either was terrible (although after my son started driving the Vue did start to take a real beating). I've owned Ford, Toyotas, Mazdas, Nissans, and an assortment of British Cars. Family members have owned Fords, Toyotas, VWs, and Hondas. My only concrete rule coming form my personal observations is, stay away from VWs. Otherwise I've not seen much difference in reliability or longevity between the various major brands. I've considered several Toyota models in the past (most recently a Tundra) but generally mark them off the list because they never seem to fit quite right, and they often have horrible control layouts. I am tall/large person, so I suppose I am outside of Toyota's target Customer Group, or at least it seems that way - especially when I end up driving one of the three RAV4's in my immediate family (how do they make a car so big on the outside and so cramped on the inside?). I can get in almost any American or European designed car and find a comfortable driving position. Even Nissan and Mazda seem to make cars I can fit into. On the other hand the only Toyota I have driven recently that I was truly comfortable in is my Mother's Highlander (actually a very nice vehicle that has remarkable power considering it has a 4 cylinder engine and had fuel economy as good as my AWD Fusion). My point is, it you buy a Toyota because a bunch of Toyota enthusiast over hype the quality of the vehicles, you are setting yourself up to be a sucker. There is no way a Camry is worth thousand more than a Fusion or a Altima. Even if you believe the most pro-Toyota statistics, the differences between the brands is trivial. The prices often are not. Buy based on your needs, not on some silly claims that Toyota are especially good. And BTW, the same surveys that often claim Toyota cars have better quality also claim Toyota has poor Customer service...go figure. Ed
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