Traffic Engineering term for "Sloth"
in [Drive]
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From: Peter Lawrence on 28 Apr 2010 03:36 On 4/27/10 7:30 PM, Clark F Morris wrote: > On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:37:32 -0700, Peter Lawrence<hummbaby(a)aol.com> > wrote: >> On 4/25/10 6:26 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote: >>> >>> No, that's a separate specialty then this thing addressed. >>> Unfortunately, many curves are now given advisory signs based on sight >>> distance restrictions, not ball bank limits. While sight >>> restrictions are a problem, drivers assume a yellow warning sign is >>> for sharp curvature and it makes them ignore ones they should pay >>> attention to (although those are actually very rare). And while I >>> can't be sure, I'm getting suspicious that some of these pinhead >>> traffic engineers are only looking at the amount of curve and not >>> considering the amount of bank/super elevation when deciding a curve >>> needs an advisory sign - I see way too many needless signs on banked >>> curves that can easily be taken at normal or even high speeds. >> >> I've noticed on California roads, I can easily take a curve at a 30% faster >> speed than the advisory limit. So a curve with an advisory limit of 45 MPH >> I can take at 60 MPH, one with a advisory limit of 30 MPH, I can take easily >> at 40 MPH, but one listed at 15 MPH, then I can take it at around 20 MPH. In >> fact, if I'm familiar with the curve, I can usually take a curve easily at >> 50% over the posted advisory limit. > > My Corolla probably could too but what about a mini-van, an SUV, or a > dump truck? Never had a problem going up to 30% over the advisory limit in California with any type of personal vehicle (sedan, SUV, or pickup truck). Granted, I wouldn't try it while driving a U-Haul moving van or other large commercial trucks. And I don't presume that other states are so conservative with their advisory limits, so I'm a bit more cautious when traveling out of state. - Peter
From: gpsman on 28 Apr 2010 08:42 On Apr 27, 9:59 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > There are a couple of curves on my daily commute with advisory limits > of 60 which I can easily take at 85+, or more than 40% above the > advisory limit. What is commonly most striking of your examples of roadways and their conditions is the lack of easily included specificity. > The sad part is most people slow down on curves. Isn't what most people do your evidence speed limits are underposted? How do you reconcile this disparity? > Inevitably, they slow > down side-by-side, blocking all lanes, with me stuck behind them. Incomprehensible how often you're stuck behind traffic, isn't it? > Their mind-numbing stupidity is so predicatble that I'll put > significant effort into a pre-emptive strike and maneuver my vehicle > such that it won't be trapped behind these scaredy-cats. Oh. MFFY. Who could have seen that coming? 8 of 10 of the "top ten ways to spot the wrong stuff" in pilots and truck drivers; 8 fer 8 as they apply to the average motorist. 1. Overconfidence and/or grandiose self-image not supported by actual accomplishments or skills. 2. Disregard for regulations, safety. 3. Paternalistic. Sees others as weak, especially the safety- conscious. 4. Exhibitions of skill or daring, especially for an audience. 5. Stories of fearlessness or of accomplishments attained by violating rules/regs. 6. Lack of empathy for others' feelings. Enjoys scaring passengers or terrorizing fellow highway travelers. 7. Mistakes are denied, blamed on others or rationalized. 10. Reacts with anger or derision to anyone who questions the appropriateness of Super Driver attitudes or behavior. > The MFFY Litmus Test: > If your maneuver forces another driver who has the right-of-way > to alter course or speed, what you did was probably MFFY. A litmus test for MFFY suggests the obvious. ----- - gpsman
From: jgar the jorrible on 28 Apr 2010 14:33 On Apr 28, 12:36 am, Peter Lawrence <hummb...(a)aol.com> wrote: > On 4/27/10 7:30 PM, Clark F Morris wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:37:32 -0700, Peter Lawrence<hummb...(a)aol.com> > > wrote: > >> On 4/25/10 6:26 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote: > > >>> No, that's a separate specialty then this thing addressed. > >>> Unfortunately, many curves are now given advisory signs based on sight > >>> distance restrictions, not ball bank limits. While sight > >>> restrictions are a problem, drivers assume a yellow warning sign is > >>> for sharp curvature and it makes them ignore ones they should pay > >>> attention to (although those are actually very rare). And while I > >>> can't be sure, I'm getting suspicious that some of these pinhead > >>> traffic engineers are only looking at the amount of curve and not > >>> considering the amount of bank/super elevation when deciding a curve > >>> needs an advisory sign - I see way too many needless signs on banked > >>> curves that can easily be taken at normal or even high speeds. > > >> I've noticed on California roads, I can easily take a curve at a 30% faster > >> speed than the advisory limit. So a curve with an advisory limit of 45 MPH > >> I can take at 60 MPH, one with a advisory limit of 30 MPH, I can take easily > >> at 40 MPH, but one listed at 15 MPH, then I can take it at around 20 MPH. In > >> fact, if I'm familiar with the curve, I can usually take a curve easily at > >> 50% over the posted advisory limit. > > > My Corolla probably could too but what about a mini-van, an SUV, or a > > dump truck? > > Never had a problem going up to 30% over the advisory limit in California > with any type of personal vehicle (sedan, SUV, or pickup truck). Granted, I > wouldn't try it while driving a U-Haul moving van or other large commercial > trucks. And I don't presume that other states are so conservative with > their advisory limits, so I'm a bit more cautious when traveling out of state. > > - Peter I recall laughing at several generations of Porsches, at different times in the 80's, in the iceplant, SB405 offramp at Crenshaw. Nice S- shaped curve watered by Rainbirds. Nowadays there's a big honkin' sound wall there. I sometimes double advisory limits, but only when I can see it is dry and empty and I've been there before. It can be humorous when some jarhead on a ricebike is dogging me, happens too often SB5 to EB76, which also has a nasty Rainbird at odd times. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=5+76++Oceanside,+CA&sll=33.203343,-117.383037&sspn=0.002437,0.005681&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=California+76,+Oceanside,+San+Diego,+California&ll=33.203729,-117.382468&spn=0.002437,0.005681&t=h&z=18 They recently put in a K barrier SB5 to EB78, used to be real easy to slide (or semi's to tip) into onramp traffic, or keep going into the lagoon. Now there are skid marks up the side of the barrier. And I'm sure in some pants, too. jg -- @home.com is bogus. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/28/woman-killled-crash-border-agent/
From: Alan Baker on 28 Apr 2010 21:35 In article <w9zsk6gtutn.fsf(a)zipcon.net>, Patrick Scheible <kkt(a)zipcon.net> wrote: > Peter Lawrence <hummbaby(a)aol.com> writes: > > > On 4/25/10 6:26 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote: > > > > > > No, that's a separate specialty then this thing addressed. > > > Unfortunately, many curves are now given advisory signs based on sight > > > distance restrictions, not ball bank limits. While sight > > > restrictions are a problem, drivers assume a yellow warning sign is > > > for sharp curvature and it makes them ignore ones they should pay > > > attention to (although those are actually very rare). And while I > > > can't be sure, I'm getting suspicious that some of these pinhead > > > traffic engineers are only looking at the amount of curve and not > > > considering the amount of bank/super elevation when deciding a curve > > > needs an advisory sign - I see way too many needless signs on banked > > > curves that can easily be taken at normal or even high speeds. > > > > I've noticed on California roads, I can easily take a curve at a 30% faster > > speed than the advisory limit. So a curve with an advisory limit of 45 MPH > > I can take at 60 MPH, one with a advisory limit of 30 MPH, I can take > > easily > > at 40 MPH, but one listed at 15 MPH, then I can take it at around 20 MPH. > > In > > fact, if I'm familiar with the curve, I can usually take a curve easily at > > 50% over the posted advisory limit. > > > > To me, it seems that Caltrans sets the advisory limit on curves so if you > > don't exceed that speed you'll feel no noticeable G-force while on the > > curve. It's the speed you want to take if you don't want any loose items > > to > > roll around inside your vehicle. :) > > It's also a good speed to take it at if it's icy or your tires are > bald. > > -- Patrick And there are curves that get no advisory speed at all that you should take more slowly than you would drive them on a sunny day. Advisory limits should reflect what is safe and reasonable for average cars in good conditions and be CONSISTENT. It wouldn't matter than advisory limits are set too low if they were always set too low by the same proportion. The trouble comes when you occasionally encounter one that is actually indicating what speed you really need to be driving. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Alan Baker on 28 Apr 2010 21:36
In article <83pofuFphU1(a)mid.individual.net>, Larry Sheldon <lfsheldon(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 4/27/2010 22:18, Matthew Russotto wrote: > > In article <83pelkFj3bU1(a)mid.individual.net>, > > Larry Sheldon <lfsheldon(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Happened lots of times, in any case. And rolled out of a curve is > >> probably the most preventable single vehicle "accident" there is. > > > > If the advisory curve speeds were set consistently, it would be more > > preventable. It's not surprising that having encountered 100 curves > > marked "40 mph" which were easily safe at 60 mph, that a driver will, > > upon seeing a curve marked "40 mph" will assume it IS safe at 60mph. > > If it's one of the few curves which isn't overly conservatively > > marked, the driver has a problem. > > I don't think I have ever seen a curve where the maximum safe speed for > a ricebox was the same as for an 80,000 pound truck full of rolls of > paper. Or of gasoline. And you never will. What of it. Truck drivers have to know that what is alright for them is different that what is alright for the typical passenger vehicle. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg> |