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From: Nate Nagel on 20 Jun 2010 23:26
On 06/20/2010 11:24 PM, Brent wrote:
> On 2010-06-20, Nate Nagel<njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote:
>
>> Hell, they can't even time the lights right in big cities. I've seen it
>> happen (e.g. 5th Avenue in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh) but far
>> more often I've seen light timings that seemed to be designed to make
>> you *have* to stop as often as possible no matter what you do.
>
> The control freaks in the USA do that on purpose, no question about it.
> same reason they put up stop signs all over the place. It's an excerise
> of their control. Suggest timing lights and they'll freak out about
> people 'speeding through'. It makes no sense but that's what they'll do.
>

That doesn't even make sense, though. Time the lights for the speed
limit and then people will actually obey it. (the smart ones, anyway.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: Brent on 21 Jun 2010 00:27
On 2010-06-21, Nate Nagel <njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote:
> On 06/20/2010 11:24 PM, Brent wrote:
>> On 2010-06-20, Nate Nagel<njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hell, they can't even time the lights right in big cities. I've seen it
>>> happen (e.g. 5th Avenue in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh) but far
>>> more often I've seen light timings that seemed to be designed to make
>>> you *have* to stop as often as possible no matter what you do.
>>
>> The control freaks in the USA do that on purpose, no question about it.
>> same reason they put up stop signs all over the place. It's an excerise
>> of their control. Suggest timing lights and they'll freak out about
>> people 'speeding through'. It makes no sense but that's what they'll do.
>>
>
> That doesn't even make sense, though. Time the lights for the speed
> limit and then people will actually obey it. (the smart ones, anyway.)

Of course now I can't find articles with the complainers... seems the
complaints are now on how much money it costs. Car haters are still out
there against it because they want to make driving painful.



From: Larry Scholnick on 21 Jun 2010 20:21
On Jun 19, 9:16 pm, richard <mem...(a)newsguy.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:53:01 -0700 (PDT), gpsman wrote:
> > Imagine knowing the perfect speed in which to cruise through traffic
> > signals. It would be displayed in your car. Drive the optimal speed
> > and you would never have to stop at a light.
>
> > That's just the system that Audi is trying out in Germany. The system
> > is being called "Travolution" and it involves having cars communicate
> > with traffic signal to try to take some of the frustration out of city
> > driving.
>
> > Audi says it has built upon the system that it first tried out in
> > 2006. In 15 test vehicles, the optimal speed for driving easily
> > through the next green light is displayed in the car. The system is
> > rigged to work with 25 traffic signals in Ingolstadt.
>
> > Audi thinks such a system could reduce waiting times at traffic
> > signals and cut fuel consumption by 17%.
>
> > The system also makes it possible to pay online when refueling or
> > parking the car, Audi says. The car itself communicates with the
> > stationary equipment at the filling station or parking garage. When
> > the driver confirms the charge, it is automatically debited from the
> > customer's account or credit card.
> >http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/06/audis-sy...
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w-QkHuAZrQ
> >  -----
>
> > - gpsman
>
> Welcome to fantasy land.
>
> As traffic lights in many locations are NOT set to any one set speed it is
> next to impossible to make this dreamworld happen.
>
> --
> I learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone, so you got to please
> yourself.
> - Ricky Nelson from "Garden Party"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

As Scott has pointed out many times on these forums, the traffic
lights on many of the major roads in Orange County, CA would never
turn green if nobody was there to trip the sensors. The optimal non-
stopping speed for the first car can't be calculated because the first
car has to get there to trip the sensor, and will always end up
stopped. The optimal speed for subsequent cars can only be determined
once that first car has tripped the sensor, and that optimal speed for
eadh car will be different, depending on the distance from the car's
position to the just-tripped signal. However, the light will only
stay green as long as cars keep tripping the sensor; so, the optimal
speed of the 2nd car may be nearly infinite if that's what it takes to
get to the signal before the signal goes red for lack of interest.

In other areas, the optimal non-stopping speed for certain segments
may drop to ridiculously low single-digit speeds. If a car equipped
with this system crawled along at 5 MPH to avoid stopping, other cars
would inevitably react by honking at such cars or simply passing
them. It may turn out that for a signal that allows a maximum of 10
cars per green cycle, 10 or more cars will pass the equipped car,
utilize the entire green cycle capacity, thus forcing the equipped car
to stop at a red light.

There are some signal systems where it is inevitable that some traffic
has to stop at red lights. In some such systems, the system is
designed around the storage capacity of a given section of road. For
example, picture a typical diamond interchange of a north/south
freeway and an east-west surface street. If both exit ramps go green
at the same time, the system relies on left-turning traffic from the
freeway proceeding at a reasonable pace and arriving at the red light
at the other end of the bridge (or tunnel). If the first car crawled
along at 5 MPH in order to avoid stopping, some cars would be stuck on
the ramp, unable to make their left turn, and fewer cars would be able
to exit the freeeway per green cycle.
From: John David Galt on 22 Jun 2010 00:32
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> Hell, they can't even time the lights right in big cities. I've seen it
>>> happen (e.g. 5th Avenue in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh) but far
>>> more often I've seen light timings that seemed to be designed to make
>>> you *have* to stop as often as possible no matter what you do.

> Brent wrote:
>> The control freaks in the USA do that on purpose, no question about it.
>> same reason they put up stop signs all over the place. It's an excerise
>> of their control. Suggest timing lights and they'll freak out about
>> people 'speeding through'. It makes no sense but that's what they'll do.

Nate Nagel wrote:
> That doesn't even make sense, though. Time the lights for the speed
> limit and then people will actually obey it. (the smart ones, anyway.)

The closest I've seen to this is in San Francisco, where the lights on
certain corridors (for instance 19th Ave/CA-1) are timed for 2 MPH below
a speed limit that is already 10 MPH too low. The usual result is that
the tourists comply, while the residents and commuters use "lesser" routes
to avoid the problem.
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