From: Noddy on

"Athol" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1196253475.120713(a)idlwebserver.idl.com.au...

> Increased thermostat temperature does 3 other things...
>
> 1/ Increases the heat transfer capacity of the convertor, thus increasing
> the maximum horsepower of fuel that it can deliver.
>
> 2/ Increases the temperature differential across the radiator, increasing
> the efficiency of heat transfer. This actually increases the ability of
> the cooling system to dissipate heat for the same size of system and
> reduces the risk of "overheating".
>
> 3/ Increases the interior heater core temperature, making the heater more
> effective. :-)

....and 4/ Reduces the overall wear rate of the engine, as wear rates drop in
direct proportion to increases in operating temperature.

--
Regards,
Noddy.


From: John McKenzie on
Yvan(a)office wrote:
>
> With the new carb I do not have this mixer plate, but I do have adapter
> plate at the bottom of the carburetor (so that I could fix it to the
> intake manifold)

How thick is the adapter plate (actually never mind that question, I
just looked back at the pictures), and is there (and I realise that this
could be more than a little time consuming - at the very least a new
manifold gasket and a couple of hours with a die grinder) any chance you
can modify the existing manifold with a bigger hole and relocated
studs/bolts - so the carb could be attached directly to the manifold?

Failing that - you could probably machine 2-3mm off the adapter plate
safely. more than 3mm probably not.

>. Not much room left there.

How about if the entire air filter lid was replace? I'm guessing it has
some lumps in it - can you make a new one that is completely smooth? Or
even just use a hammer to tap down the highest parts?


--
John McKenzie

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From: John McKenzie on
Yvan(a)office wrote:
>
> Nedavno John McKenzie pi�e:
>
> >> I will check tomorrow morning if it will start on lpg when engine is
> >> cold.
> >
> > If it started on the old single barrel carb and lpg system it should
> > on the new one. If it doesn't - you'd have to look at why. I won't
> > post more on that for now - as it's probably going to be more
> > confusing to add more theory now - only worry about it if it doesn't
> > start.
>
> I tried this morning, and it starts OK with paper amos ring.
>
> > Athol mentioned the use of a 195F thermostat as a necessity - let me
> > expand on that.
> >
> > There's two big reasons for it.
> >
> > For some reason a lot of lpg fitters will go to a 180 or even 160F
> > thermostat.
>
> What thermostat are we talking about here? The one factory fitted to the
> engine, that opens/closes coolant flow to the radiator?

yes, that one.


This is the
> only one I have. Do lpg fitters in Australia change this thermostat as
> a part of lpg conversion? Over here they do not.

Some of them do. The smarter ones don't. In any discussion of lpg it's
important to mention this issue. It won't be a problem for most people,
but it's one of the first things to check before going to any expensive
options.

Noddy has mentioned in the past (he used to be an engine machinist,
among other things) that due to the job the thermostat has to do, and
it's usual price, changing it every 12 months is cheap insurance.
Obviously they last a lot longer than that in most cases, but there is
certainly nothing to lose by changing it yearly.

> My problems with engine stalling during warm-up are over before
> thermostat opens. I checked that by feeling with my hand hose from the
> engine block to the radiator - it was cold, and the engine was running
> OK on lpg at that time.

I understand this - but every little bit helps. Just like a wastegate on
a turbocharger will open a little earlier than it's set boost level, the
thermostat starts to open before it's at full temp. Any small delay in
it's opening will speed up how fast the engine warms up and how well the
convertor peforms.


> I will make it shorter and wider at the entry when I build it from
> steel. I am thinking about sheet metal (not sure I got material name
> right - sheet of metal 0.8 - 1 mm thick, that I will cut and bend into
> shape I want)

We call it sheet metal down here, though you sometimes hear just 'sheet'
by itself or the mesurement too - for example '1mm sheet') . Of course
most will define it as sheet metal to be clearer, it depends what
industry they are from sometimes.

>
> OK. Than I will make it slightly larger than 35x30 mm, and narrow it
> with some "liquid metal" (two component mixture that can be used in
> high temperatures for seeling block cracks, tank leaks...)

As long as you can get it to stick/adhere/glue on safely, it'll be fine.
If you are worried, you could drill the side of the sheet metal, and use
a screw or bolt to hold it permanently (maybe countersinking the hole,
or just grinding the bolt head a little bit.


> > Generally speaking if i was in your situation right now, I'd make the
> > amos ring/ carb hat (whatever it's called) mostly as you have designed
> > it (that small change I discussed maybe) and try it out. I'd only
> > alter it if it lost either too much low rpm response, or died at
> > higher rpms, and even then, I'd only go about 1mm at a time.
>
> Bad low rpm response -> gas entry opening needs to be larger, and,
> bad at high rpm -> gas entry opening needs to be smaller. Right?

Other way around.

If it's bad at low rpm, reduce the diameter of the narrowest point of
the venturi. - I'm talking about the part the fresh air flows through,
not the part the lpg flows through.


> > Perhaps to make it easier - design and build it from steel, or
> > whatever is convenient, but fill in the venturi section with braze
> > welding, because that would be easier to build up and to grind to
> > whatever shape and size you want if it needs it.
>
> I was thinking to do something like that.

Sounds good - let us all know how it goes!

--
John McKenzie

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From: John McKenzie on
Yvan(a)office wrote:
>
> Nedavno John McKenzie pi�e:
>
> >> I will check tomorrow morning if it will start on lpg when engine is
> >> cold.
> >
> > If it started on the old single barrel carb and lpg system it should
> > on the new one. If it doesn't - you'd have to look at why. I won't
> > post more on that for now - as it's probably going to be more
> > confusing to add more theory now - only worry about it if it doesn't
> > start.
>
> I tried this morning, and it starts OK with paper amos ring.
>
> > Athol mentioned the use of a 195F thermostat as a necessity - let me
> > expand on that.
> >
> > There's two big reasons for it.
> >
> > For some reason a lot of lpg fitters will go to a 180 or even 160F
> > thermostat.
>
> What thermostat are we talking about here? The one factory fitted to the
> engine, that opens/closes coolant flow to the radiator?

yes, that one.


This is the
> only one I have. Do lpg fitters in Australia change this thermostat as
> a part of lpg conversion? Over here they do not.

Some of them do. The smarter ones don't. In any discussion of lpg it's
important to mention this issue. It won't be a problem for most people,
but it's one of the first things to check before going to any expensive
options.

Noddy has mentioned in the past (he used to be an engine machinist,
among other things) that due to the job the thermostat has to do, and
it's usual price, changing it every 12 months is cheap insurance.
Obviously they last a lot longer than that in most cases, but there is
certainly nothing to lose by changing it yearly.

> My problems with engine stalling during warm-up are over before
> thermostat opens. I checked that by feeling with my hand hose from the
> engine block to the radiator - it was cold, and the engine was running
> OK on lpg at that time.

I understand this - but every little bit helps. Just like a wastegate on
a turbocharger will open a little earlier than it's set boost level, the
thermostat starts to open before it's at full temp. Any small delay in
it's opening will speed up how fast the engine warms up and how well the
convertor peforms.


> I will make it shorter and wider at the entry when I build it from
> steel. I am thinking about sheet metal (not sure I got material name
> right - sheet of metal 0.8 - 1 mm thick, that I will cut and bend into
> shape I want)

We call it sheet metal down here, though you sometimes hear just 'sheet'
by itself or the mesurement too - for example '1mm sheet') . Of course
most will define it as sheet metal to be clearer, it depends what
industry they are from sometimes.

>
> OK. Than I will make it slightly larger than 35x30 mm, and narrow it
> with some "liquid metal" (two component mixture that can be used in
> high temperatures for seeling block cracks, tank leaks...)

As long as you can get it to stick/adhere/glue on safely, it'll be fine.
If you are worried, you could drill the side of the sheet metal, and use
a screw or bolt to hold it permanently (maybe countersinking the hole,
or just grinding the bolt head a little bit.


> > Generally speaking if i was in your situation right now, I'd make the
> > amos ring/ carb hat (whatever it's called) mostly as you have designed
> > it (that small change I discussed maybe) and try it out. I'd only
> > alter it if it lost either too much low rpm response, or died at
> > higher rpms, and even then, I'd only go about 1mm at a time.
>
> Bad low rpm response -> gas entry opening needs to be larger, and,
> bad at high rpm -> gas entry opening needs to be smaller. Right?

Other way around.

If it's bad at low rpm, reduce the diameter of the narrowest point of
the venturi. - I'm talking about the part the fresh air flows through,
not the part the lpg flows through.


> > Perhaps to make it easier - design and build it from steel, or
> > whatever is convenient, but fill in the venturi section with braze
> > welding, because that would be easier to build up and to grind to
> > whatever shape and size you want if it needs it.
>
> I was thinking to do something like that.

Sounds good - let us all know how it goes!


--
John McKenzie

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From: Yvan on
Nedavno John McKenzie pi�e:

> How thick is the adapter plate (actually never mind that question, I
> just looked back at the pictures), and is there (and I realise that
> this could be more than a little time consuming - at the very least a
> new manifold gasket and a couple of hours with a die grinder) any
> chance you can modify the existing manifold with a bigger hole and
> relocated studs/bolts - so the carb could be attached directly to the
> manifold?

That can not be done. Carburetor is wider than the top of the inlet
manifold, and bolts would be in the air.


> Failing that - you could probably machine 2-3mm off the adapter plate
> safely. more than 3mm probably not.

I could do that in a first place, but I wanted to be able to fit old
carburetor back if something fails (I was not sure that this one will
work OK).


>>. Not much room left there.
>
> How about if the entire air filter lid was replace? I'm guessing it
> has some lumps in it - can you make a new one that is completely
> smooth? Or even just use a hammer to tap down the highest parts?


Looks easier just to fabricate amos ring :-) Except the idea of making
bottom area of the air box flat. That would make fabrication of amos
ring mush easier. I am going to look at it when I get home. But I think
that it's at angle to the carburetor... Worth checking, thank you.


--
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