From: John McKenzie on
Yvan(a)office wrote:
>
> I am still searching for the informations on tuning ignition advance for
> lpg, and I downloaded configuration software for the device I am going
> to order, and few ignition maps to see some different setups (only for
> petrol). There are some setups that are not logical (ignition advances
> with load), but I discarded that, and concentrated at default ignition
> map for petrol normally aspirated engine. It is the one on the top
> here:
>
> http://www.ptt.yu/korisnici/i/v/ivica/lpg/IgnitionMaps.jpg
>
> The one at the bottom is what I made based on suggestions I got here,
> and what I found on the Internet. I made max vac advance 4-5, it looks
> to low to use 8-10 as it would be less advance at full throttle with
> lpg than with petrol (in defalt petrol ignition map example, at the
> link above).
>
> Any comments, suggestions?

Looking specifically at the bottom map you created:

What is the compression ratio of your car again?

Unless it is above 10:1 (or it's cast iron head - then 9.5:1) I actually
think the 10% load map should be shifted to the 100% load map (roughly
speaking) and just make the 90, 80 -> 10% load map lower, but in
approximately the same 'ratio' as it is in the bottom map right now.

Of course when I order, assemble and install
> EDIS ignition, I will do the actual tuning, but perhaps I can start
> with a best ignition map as possible.

Aside from the stuff I've said in the past, be curious enough to try
more advance down low, but be equally 'biased' to limit advance up
higher. I've often found cars (at 100% load) run better with less total
advance. My general method is to find whatever timing runs the highest
mph in a 1/4mile run (not as easy to access if you don't live either
near a dragstrip, or near massive unpatrolled highways) and then back it
down 2 degrees at a time, till that mph drops down, and then take one
step back - so it's at the minimum possible total advance that produced
that mph at the end of a 1/4mile. There's a whole science behind why
that works, and i understand it's practical application/use far more
than I understand every scientific reason behind why it's so relevant.

I'd also mention that I'd do this test in summer, as the timing an lpg
car will tolerate in winter will be higher. If you have an intake
temperature probe and the edis can interpret that signal, then you have
yet another avenue to tune.

Over here (in the 'colder' part of the mainland) - we have enough summer
days over 38C that we have to tune to be safe (or not drive the car hard
for maybe 1/3 of summer). If you only have a very small number of days
above a significantly high temperature, you can totally ignore that
need.

--
John McKenzie

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From: Yvan on
Nedavno John McKenzie pi�e:

> Looking specifically at the bottom map you created:
>
> What is the compression ratio of your car again?


It's 9.5:1



> Unless it is above 10:1 (or it's cast iron head - then 9.5:1) I
> actually think the 10% load map should be shifted to the 100% load map
> (roughly speaking) and just make the 90, 80 -> 10% load map lower, but
> in approximately the same 'ratio' as it is in the bottom map right
> now.


I do not understand what you are saying here. Should I shift entire
first row to the bottom row? So that for the 100% (actually its not %
its kPa MAP) load I have 15 18 21 ... 29 degrees advance?

Or should I just retard ignition 10% for 80 and 90, so that it reads
(for 90): 10 12 16 20 20...20?

Or something else?




>> Of course when I order, assemble and install
>> EDIS ignition, I will do the actual tuning, but perhaps I can start
>> with a best ignition map as possible.
>
> Aside from the stuff I've said in the past, be curious enough to try
> more advance down low, but be equally 'biased' to limit advance up
> higher. I've often found cars (at 100% load) run better with less
> total advance.


"More advance down low" - you mean low rpm, right? Right now it's ~16
deg at idle. Do I need more?

And you think that I need less advance at 100? Say 10 deg at 100 rpm?




> My general method is to find whatever timing runs the
> highest mph in a 1/4mile run (not as easy to access if you don't live
> either near a dragstrip, or near massive unpatrolled highways) and
> then back it down 2 degrees at a time, till that mph drops down, and
> then take one step back - so it's at the minimum possible total
> advance that produced that mph at the end of a 1/4mile. There's a
> whole science behind why that works, and i understand it's practical
> application/use far more than I understand every scientific reason
> behind why it's so relevant.


I guess that it can be done for a initial timing with a distributor.
With what I am doing you can change a timing specific for a certain rpm
range in corelation with a load.



> I'd also mention that I'd do this test in summer, as the timing an lpg
> car will tolerate in winter will be higher. If you have an intake
> temperature probe and the edis can interpret that signal, then you
> have yet another avenue to tune.


I know, higher temperatures - more chance for pinging. And there is no
intake temperature sensor, I think that it is in a development stage,
so nothing to tune there.





--
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From: Yvan on
Nedavno Yvan(a)office piše:


John, are you still here? Can you please clear this for me?



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From: John McKenzie on
Yvan wrote:
>
> Nedavno Yvan(a)office piše:
>
> John, are you still here? Can you please clear this for me?

I am - I'll have to get to it tomorrow though - I've run out of time -
I'll make it a diagram/table so it's clearer.


--
John McKenzie

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From: Yvan on
Nedavno John McKenzie piše:

> I am - I'll have to get to it tomorrow though - I've run out of time -
> I'll make it a diagram/table so it's clearer.


I've been busy:

http://www.ptt.yu/korisnici/i/v/ivica/edis/Sensor-Wheel.jpg
http://www.ptt.yu/korisnici/i/v/ivica/edis/Old-New.jpg

On the first photo you can see sensor on the sensor mountand 36-1
trigger wheel mounted on a pulley (in action, engine running :-)

Second photo shows HT leads connected to the EDIS ignition coil.


But now I have a problem.

When I turned the key to shut the engine (running on EDIS setup) engine
continued to run because I had connected EDIS module directly to the
battery, so I guess that engine stopped when it run out of the LPG
(solenoid automatically shuts down LPG supply when there was no spark
for a couple of secconds at the HT lead from the ignition coil to the
distributor).

I plugged all back as it was, and now I can not start the engine. I
doublechecked how I placed HT leads back in to the distributor (1-3-4-2
in anticlockwise direction). There is a spark, I checked.

I am going to let the engine cool down for a while, and then try again,
perhaps there is too much or to little LPG in the inlet manifold.

Did I damage something while engine was running on EDIS (I did not
disconnect original ignition system, I just transfered HT leads)? But
since I have the spark I think that I should be OK there, right?

Than it must be something LPG related...


--
___ ____
/__/ / \ ** Registrovani korisnik Linuksa #291606 **
/ / \/ /\ \ ** Registered Linux user #291606 **
/__/\____/--\__\ ** http://counter.li.org/ **