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From: Martin Phipps on 5 May 2007 07:09 On May 5, 2:39 pm, "Fred G. Mackey" <nos...(a)dont.spam> wrote: > DanielSan wrote: > > Fred G. Mackey wrote: > > >> Robibnikoff wrote: > > >>> "Fred G. Mackey" <nos...(a)dont.spam> > >>> snip > > >>>> That's the SECONDARY definition. I notice you left out the PRIMARY > >>>> definition. > > >>> So? If it's wrong, it's wrong. Deal. > > >> Deal with it yourself. The accepted definition is that atheists > >> believe there are no gods. > > > I do not accept that definition. > > Much as many loonies do not accept reality. > > > I am an atheist and, therefore, can > > argue about its definition. > > putting the cart before the horse, eh? > > > > >> Since you don't seem to like that defintion, you argue as if it > >> doesn't exist. > > >> That's a minor point though - atheists (as defined by most > >> dictionaries) believe - get that - they BELIEVE - there are no gods. > > > No, we do not. Dictionaries are written by (and are spun by) the > > dictionary writers. > > Oh my - it's all a big conspiracy, isn't it? Those damned "dictionary > writers". > > Do you believe they are the pilots of the black helicopters that circle > your home at all hours of the day and nite too? > > > Belief, where it comes to deities (or lack thereof) > > comes down to faith. Atheists, by defintion, have none. > > Even by your definition, it does not follow that atheists "have none". > > > "the": Root word part, meaning "god". > > "theism": Belief in "god". > > a- : prefix meaning "lack of" or "no". > > > Put the together and we have: > > > atheism: lack of belief in god or no belief in god. > > Wonderful - now study a little about language - common usage dictates > definitions. Fair enough. So what word would you use to describe someone who lacks belief in any god? "Areligious"? "Godless"? "Heathen"? These are all synonyms for "atheist". Get over it. Martin
From: Martin Phipps on 5 May 2007 07:21 > "Fred G. Mackey" <nos...(a)dont.spam> wrote in messagenews:NNWdnZVSSbx6gqHbnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d(a)comcast.com... > > > Jeckyl wrote: > > >>>That's not the atheist position. You've done a GREAT job of > >>>explaining the agnostic position. > > >> Which is also the atheist position .. you are confusing atheist with the > >> subset "strong-atheist", > > > That's a crock - an atheist is an atheist. > > They BELIEVE there is no god of any kind. > > Your pleas only help prove my point that it IS a religion. He isn't pleading. He's educating you. I am a teacher by profession. I am strongly motivated to teach math, for instance. Does that make math a religion? Is the Pythagorean theorem now a doctrine that you need faith to believe? Religion requires faith and things that require faith are patently untrue: something which is demonstrately true by evidence and reason would not require faith to be believed. Atheism does not require faith: that there is no evidence that any gods exist is just simply a statement of fact. (If the tenets of any religion could be proven to be true through evidence and reason then they would no longer be beliefs requiring faith.) Atheism simply involves refusing to believe in things for which no evidence exists. Get over it. Martin
From: Martin Phipps on 5 May 2007 07:25 On May 5, 4:25 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...(a)man.jp> wrote: > Jeckyl wrote: > > "Fred G. Mackey" <nos...(a)dont.spam> wrote in message > >news:NNWdnZVSSbx6gqHbnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d(a)comcast.com... > >> Jeckyl wrote: > > >>>> That's not the atheist position. You've done a GREAT job of > >>>> explaining the agnostic position. > > >>> Which is also the atheist position .. you are confusing atheist > >>> with the subset "strong-atheist", > > >> That's a crock - an atheist is an atheist. > > > Can't argue with that. And some are only weak atheists and some are > > also strong atheists. > > >> They BELIEVE there is no god of any kind. > > > They do not BELIEVE there is a god of any kind > > >> Your pleas only help prove my point that it IS a religion. > > > What pleas? > > >> If you weren't religious you would get so hyped up about it > > > Oh .. was I hyped? > > >> especially in the face of valid cites > >> which prove my position on this issue. > > > I'm just interested in the truth. An atheist is someone who does not > > believe in god (or gods). > > >>> who not only have a lack of theism (ie no belief in gods) but also a > >>> belief that gods to not exists. > >> Yep - atheists have a belief that gods do not exist. > > > Some atheists have a belief that gods do not exist. > > Nope. A-theism = Lack of Belief. People who do believe that gods do not exist also lack belief in any gods. Martin
From: Jeckyl on 5 May 2007 08:50 "Fred G. Mackey" <nospam(a)dont.spam> wrote in message news:EOadnf2nwtfUu6HbnZ2dnUVZ_uWlnZ2d(a)comcast.com... >> Strong atheists, such as myself, do not believe in gods and I know, for a >> fact, that the gods as defined by man do not exist. > You could have stopped with "do not believe in gods". That would have defined an atheist (ie someone without theism) > But if you are truly an atheist, you go beyond that and BELIEVE that > god(s) do not exist. You mean if you are a strong/radical atheist .. yes. Glad to see you finally undersand the differnence between (weak) atheism and strong atheism.
From: Jeckyl on 5 May 2007 08:52
"� UltraMan �" <ultra(a)man.jp> wrote in message news:5a2tbiF2lrcr1U1(a)mid.individual.net... > Jeckyl wrote: >>>> who not only have a lack of theism (ie no belief in gods) but also a >>>> belief that gods to not exists. >>> Yep - atheists have a belief that gods do not exist. >> >> Some atheists have a belief that gods do not exist. > > Nope. A-theism = Lack of Belief. Sorry .. you're mistaken A-theism = lack of theistic belief = lack of believe in god(s) That is not incompatible with believing there is no god, which is what strong/radical atheists belief. It is not REQUIRED for an atheist to belief that gods do not exists .. but only to not believe that they do Atheism does not in any way mean a total lack of any belief (as you imply) ... only lack of belief in god. |