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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 3 Feb 2010 20:06
On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, David Z wrote:

>> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
>> to shift to
>> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>
> That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
> patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for
> at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
> the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
> neutral?

Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
the gearshift lever.

It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.


>
> Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
> included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
> this problem?

It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.


From: Ashton Crusher on 3 Feb 2010 20:14
On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:46:19 -0500, dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote:

>David Z wrote:
>> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
>> news:KJWdnXp1KKCrZfTWnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>> "David Z" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:7sub38Fs5pU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>> I'm not confident that Toyota has "found the problem" and "designed the
>>>> fix" in a couple of days. The pressure they are under is more conducive
>>>> to getting it "right away" rather than getting it right.
>>>
>>> ********
>>> We will see. I heard an interview with a dealership owner and Avalon
>>> driver today
>>> and he was asked point blank if he were certain this will be a fix. What
>>> else could
>>> he say but "yes". He had never had an issue with his Avalon.
>>>
>>> Neither have I .
>>>
>>> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how to
>>> shift to
>>> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>>
>> That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the patrol
>> officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at least
>> 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
>> (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
>>
>> Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>> included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized this
>> problem?
>
>it had a different cause of sticking accelerator: The rug. IT was
>covered by a different recall.


My recollection was that after the first reports came out talking
about a rug it was determined that the vehicle did not have any mats
in it.
From: ransley on 3 Feb 2010 20:23
On Feb 3, 7:06 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, David Z wrote:
> >> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
> >> to shift to
> >> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>
> > That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
> > patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for
> > at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
> > the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
> > neutral?
>
> Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position, where
> average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
> Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
> the gearshift lever.
>
> It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
> become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
> and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
> plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.
>
>
>
> > Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
> > included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
> > this problem?
>
> It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

More likely he was at fault and called 911 after the accident and the
car was stopped. I dont think anybody would be able to get their
phone, dial, send, wait, then talk, or even think of that while a
crash was in view. I would do Neutral or R or P and emergency brake,
then ignition, then Call 911. These guys do have training on cars.
From: Vic Smith on 3 Feb 2010 20:23
On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:57:11 -0500, "David Z" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:

>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:ob1km5tg2ua5pg1ql7tialac583t0u7bbn(a)4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, "David Z" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>>>patrol
>>>officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down for at
>>>least
>>>3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of the other 3
>>>(?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into neutral?
>>>
>> I think Tegger answered that question. Something about different
>> shift modes on the shifter. More unnecessary complication.
>
>What does that mean?
>
>Is he saying that, in some "shift mode," the ES doesn't allow you to shift
>from Drive to Neutral? at high speed? What "shift mode" would that be?
>
Don't know. Too complicated for me. Ask him.
I don't even like that button on my Grand Am shifter that has to be
depressed to move the shift lever.

--Vic

From: David Z on 3 Feb 2010 21:29
"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.02.04.01.05.57.193222(a)e86.GTS...
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0500, David Z wrote:
>
>>> I am going to assume that this WILL be a fix, but I will not forget how
>>> to shift to
>>> neutral, brake, and punch the button.
>>
>> That's another unanswered question I have. I can understand that the
>> patrol officer was unaware that you need to hold the start button down
>> for
>> at least 3 seconds to shut the engine off. But how could he, or any of
>> the other 3 (?) people in the car, not know how to shift the car into
>> neutral?
>
> Supposedly he had moved the shift lever to the Sport Shift position...

Are you saying that you can't easily shift from drive to neutral in "the
Sport Shift position?"

> ...where average or below average drivers can fancy themselves as Michael
> Schumacher at the Nurburgring. He had time to dial 911, but not to check
> the gearshift lever.

I heard the 911 call a few times. He had plenty of time. At least 30
seconds or more. I would need no more than 1 or 2 seconds to shift from
drive to neutral.

> It was also a car supplied as a loaner. I said in another post people have
> become too complacent in their driving. KNOW the vehicle you are driving,
> and how to control it in an emergency. EVERY TIME a pilot gets into a
> plane he has flown 1,000 times, he goes through a checklist.
>
>
>>
>> Also, you snipped and ignored my main question -- why isn't the ES350
>> included in the recall since it was an ES350 that initially publicized
>> this problem?
>
> It was the floor mats in that case. Not the Japan sourced gas pedal.

Like I said before, it stretches credulity to say that these problems are
not related.


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