Water Pump Top Hole?
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From: jim on 10 Apr 2010 08:13 Woodie wrote: > > > Hopefully, nobody's paying any royalties on a weep hole. :-) > > I was thinking any deviation from the overall design > might suffice. First of all you are talking about a 14 yr. old car with a part that has been around for decades. There isn't anything in the law preventing an after-market supplier from copying the original part except competence. An after-market part may vary from the original because it was copied badly. -jim
From: jim beam on 10 Apr 2010 09:06 On 04/09/2010 08:34 PM, Woodie wrote: > "Paul Hovnanian P.E."<Paul(a)Hovnanian.com> wrote in message > news:4BBFD222.D4440E8C(a)Hovnanian.com... >> Woodie wrote: >>> >>> Got a new (not reman.) water pump for a '96 Intrepid, 3.3L >>> engine, was surprised to see that the replacement part, a >>> Master CP7140, had the water pump weep hole at the top. >>> The OEM part (with an asymmetric mounting flange) has the >>> weep hole at the bottom. First time I've seen this. Is this now >>> common? Might the reason be to avoid paying a royalty on >>> the original patented design? >> >> I've heard that hole referred to as either a weep hole or a hole >> necessary to allow pressure relief when pressing seals/bearings into the >> bump casting. >> >> A hole in the top would be useless as a weep hole, but would work for >> the latter reason. >> >> -- >> Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul(a)Hovnanian.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Plaese porrf raed befre postng. > > Despite being on top, I think it could still function as a > stopgap safeguard against the introduction of coolant > (caused by a leaking seal) into and resulting in a > catastrophic failure of a pump shaft bearing, should > that even be the purpose of that hole. > > I did however wrap a piece of tape over the hole, > not as any type of seal, but for the sole purpose of > preventing the accidental entry of foreign chemical, > clogging or abrasive material dropping into the hole. > > I remain curious as to whether others have observed > such a possibly non-standard placement of that hole. it's a mistake. if you look at the same part supplied by most manufacturers, they have the hole at the bottom in the normal way. that this one has it at the top is a design error by that particular manufacturer. you'll see this is you search online and look at the pics. as to top vs. bottom location, top is a very bad idea. in fact, if you wanted to /deliberately/ mess up someone's car, you should make this mod. why? because it allows coolant to pool against the bearing seal [there are usually two sets of seals on a shaft - one for the pump, one for the bearing. the weep hole should be connected between so the inevitable seepage from coolant can run out before it accumulates], let that coolant seep in, and ruin the bearings. top location is a /very/ bad idea. but i supposes it's a great idea if you want to sell someone a new pump again in a few months. bottom line - it's not worth trying to save a few bucks with an aftermarket component - buy the 100k mile warranteed oem that has the weep hole where it should be. don't wait - do it now before you get stranded by that piece of garbage. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Woodie on 10 Apr 2010 14:43 "jim" <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m(a)mwt,net> wrote in message news:1fqdnTkzTazg9l3WnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d(a)bright.net... > > > Woodie wrote: > > > > > > Hopefully, nobody's paying any royalties on a weep hole. :-) > > > > I was thinking any deviation from the overall design > > might suffice. > > First of all you are talking about a 14 yr. old car with a part that has > been around for decades. There isn't anything in the law preventing an > after-market supplier from copying the original part except competence. > An after-market part may vary from the original because it was copied > badly. > > -jim I was only hazarding a guess as to the reason it might deviate from the original design. Perhaps you're correct, although I can hardly fathom the staggering incompetence required to manufacture and continue to produce a device that poorly copied lo these many years. I wonder if a defective product class action suit might be in order ;-)
From: Woodie on 10 Apr 2010 14:47 "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:bbmdnUzDmdlp6l3WnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > On 04/09/2010 08:34 PM, Woodie wrote: > > "Paul Hovnanian P.E."<Paul(a)Hovnanian.com> wrote in message > > news:4BBFD222.D4440E8C(a)Hovnanian.com... > >> Woodie wrote: > >>> > >>> Got a new (not reman.) water pump for a '96 Intrepid, 3.3L > >>> engine, was surprised to see that the replacement part, a > >>> Master CP7140, had the water pump weep hole at the top. > >>> The OEM part (with an asymmetric mounting flange) has the > >>> weep hole at the bottom. First time I've seen this. Is this now > >>> common? Might the reason be to avoid paying a royalty on > >>> the original patented design? > >> > >> I've heard that hole referred to as either a weep hole or a hole > >> necessary to allow pressure relief when pressing seals/bearings into the > >> bump casting. > >> > >> A hole in the top would be useless as a weep hole, but would work for > >> the latter reason. > >> > >> -- > >> Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul(a)Hovnanian.com > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Plaese porrf raed befre postng. > > > > Despite being on top, I think it could still function as a > > stopgap safeguard against the introduction of coolant > > (caused by a leaking seal) into and resulting in a > > catastrophic failure of a pump shaft bearing, should > > that even be the purpose of that hole. > > > > I did however wrap a piece of tape over the hole, > > not as any type of seal, but for the sole purpose of > > preventing the accidental entry of foreign chemical, > > clogging or abrasive material dropping into the hole. > > > > I remain curious as to whether others have observed > > such a possibly non-standard placement of that hole. > > it's a mistake. if you look at the same part supplied by most > manufacturers, they have the hole at the bottom in the normal way. that > this one has it at the top is a design error by that particular > manufacturer. you'll see this is you search online and look at the pics. > > as to top vs. bottom location, top is a very bad idea. in fact, if you > wanted to /deliberately/ mess up someone's car, you should make this > mod. why? because it allows coolant to pool against the bearing seal > [there are usually two sets of seals on a shaft - one for the pump, one > for the bearing. the weep hole should be connected between so the > inevitable seepage from coolant can run out before it accumulates], let > that coolant seep in, and ruin the bearings. top location is a /very/ > bad idea. but i supposes it's a great idea if you want to sell someone > a new pump again in a few months. > > bottom line - it's not worth trying to save a few bucks with an > aftermarket component - buy the 100k mile warranteed oem that has the > weep hole where it should be. don't wait - do it now before you get > stranded by that piece of garbage. > > > -- > nomina rutrum rutrum I largely agree with your analysis but its having failed on a Sunday, leaving no option to acquire the OEM part, the two nearby parts stores having a sum total of one replacement item between them combined with an immediate need for the vehicle, meant that there was little choice but to accept what was available. An interesting side note though, the gasketless aforementioned is very quickly and easily removed and reinstalled (a total of 5 mounting and 3 pulley bolts plus one o-ring) and carries a lifetime, free replacement warranty.
From: Woodie on 10 Apr 2010 14:50
"lugnut" <lugnut(a)roadkill.net> wrote in message news:l101s5lf33cfus8m9e66maoqiuengqm9lp(a)4ax.com... > On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 15:33:01 -0500, "Woodie" > <knot(a)thebar.com> wrote: > > >Got a new (not reman.) water pump for a '96 Intrepid, 3.3L > >engine, was surprised to see that the replacement part, a > >Master CP7140, had the water pump weep hole at the top. > >The OEM part (with an asymmetric mounting flange) has the > >weep hole at the bottom. First time I've seen this. Is this now > >common? Might the reason be to avoid paying a royalty on > >the original patented design? > > > > > Hole on top may even be a manufacturing mistake. Weep holes > go way back to the days of rope packing type seals. They > required a certain amount of leakage/weepage to ensure the > seal was not too tight and overheated to completely fail as > the wax melted away. In later designes, it was left there > as a good way to detect leakage while allowing the coolant > to drip harmlessly out preventing more rapid damage and > total failure of shaft bearings. I suspect the coolant will > collect around the bearings with the hole on top. > > Lugnut I concur that at incipient seal failure, coolant will commence to pool and subsequently spill from the hole. Being an old car though, I'm hoping that it might survive the remaining service life of the vehicle. In any case I'll keep an eye on it. Unlike in days of old there's fortunately no chance that a failed shaft bearing can put an attached fan into the radiator ;-) Thank you all for your considerate responses. |