What Is Your Opinion On I.D. Cards?
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From: Brent on 23 Jun 2010 19:31 On 2010-06-23, Zombywoof <fishwings(a)live.com> wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:33:56 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn ><TopCop1988(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On Jun 22, 7:55�pm, Zombywoof <fishwi...(a)live.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:10:08 -0500, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:35:43 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>>> I've been a favor of a national ID card for 30 years. >>> >>>>> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or >>>>> numbered. My life is my own." >>> >>>> You already are. You have a SSN and a drivers license. The government >>>> knows everything about you. >>> >>> Go grab your Social Security Card and read what it says on it. >> >>You're showing your age there, ;) >> >>They don't say that anymore. :( >> > Really? You're shittin me right? When did the knuckleheads start > that bullshit? At least 40 years ago. Certainly longer ago than I've been alive. The part of social security act where the number was only to be used for SS became 'conspiracy theory' along time ago.
From: Lookout on 23 Jun 2010 23:32 On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:12:38 -0400, Zombywoof <fishwings(a)live.com> wrote: >On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:15:52 -0700 (PDT), Benj <bjacoby(a)iwaynet.net> >wrote: > >>On Jun 22, 1:10�pm, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> You already are. You have a SSN and a drivers license. The government >>> knows everything about you. >> >>Which shows that those in power want all prisoners numbered. The >>farmer numbers his cows, right? Just crimp a tag (or chip these days) >>in our ear at birth and track us throughout life. Just the ticket for >>a slave society. But then Lookout is a Democrat and has been for >>slavery for so many years. Only just don't use the WORD "slavery". >>Slavery is fine just so long as you don't call it that. Call it >>"national ID" or "Healthcare reform" or "public service jobs" or >>anything else, and it'll be just fine! >> >And, what is the difference between our government wanting you to have >a card with a number on it and the Germans Tattooing Numbers on ya? Stop being an idiot. This isn't 1940s Germany. There WILL be national ID cards. Bet on it.
From: Ashton Crusher on 24 Jun 2010 01:34 On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:11:47 -0700, Brian Wraith <brianwraith(a)newzealand.invalid> wrote: >On 6/22/2010 12:04 PM, Brent wrote: >> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:35:43 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been a favor of a national ID card for 30 years. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or >>>>>> numbered. My life is my own." >>>> >>>>> You already are. You have a SSN and a drivers license. The government >>>>> knows everything about you. >>>> >>>> Why do you support making it worse? >>> >>> It's your opinion that it would get worse. >> >> Name a police state where your papers were checked routinely to make >> sure you were permitted to be in that country, work there, etc is one >> you would like to live in. >> >>>> Seems you missed the reference, it's from "The Prisoner". Why do you >>>> wish to increase the imprisonment? >>> >>> That's your opinion. I disagree. >> >> How turning the USA into a full blown 'paper's please' police state not >> make things worse? >> >> >> > >Name a single western country, where if you are stopped for suspicion of >being involved in a crime, you are not asked to positively identify >yourself. > there is a huge difference between the typical requirements to "identify yourself" and the current proposals that would require biometric ID cards tied to a national database. In the typical situation of needing to identify yourself you only need to verbally provide your real name. If you are driving and don't have your license with you then you might get a ticket for not having it with you (if you have one) or for not having a license (if you don't have one) when they run your name thru the system. Absent your name being in the database of warrants they are not going to arrest you because you don't have any "papers" on you. Where this country seems to be heading, and where I'm afraid people who hold the attitude you seem to hold are helping it head, is to where we will all be required to have an ID with us at all times and it will have to be a biometric ID tied to a combination of our finger prints, eyeballs and sphincter strength or some such unique and difficult to copy identifier and all of that will be maintained in a master computer system with all sorts of other info on us along with a RFID chip in the card that you will have to scan to enter parking lots, building, airports, your workplace, etc. It will start with the airports with every entry and exit being reported to the gvt and spread until your every movement is tracked by the gvt. Hell, they practically do that now in Chicago just with their 10,000 surveillance cameras. Maybe that's the kind of world you want to live in... It's not the kind of world I want to live in.
From: Brian Wraith on 24 Jun 2010 09:14 On 6/23/2010 10:34 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:11:47 -0700, Brian Wraith > <brianwraith(a)newzealand.invalid> wrote: > >> On 6/22/2010 12:04 PM, Brent wrote: >>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:35:43 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've been a favor of a national ID card for 30 years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or >>>>>>> numbered. My life is my own." >>>>> >>>>>> You already are. You have a SSN and a drivers license. The government >>>>>> knows everything about you. >>>>> >>>>> Why do you support making it worse? >>>> >>>> It's your opinion that it would get worse. >>> >>> Name a police state where your papers were checked routinely to make >>> sure you were permitted to be in that country, work there, etc is one >>> you would like to live in. >>> >>>>> Seems you missed the reference, it's from "The Prisoner". Why do you >>>>> wish to increase the imprisonment? >>>> >>>> That's your opinion. I disagree. >>> >>> How turning the USA into a full blown 'paper's please' police state not >>> make things worse? >>> >>> >>> >> >> Name a single western country, where if you are stopped for suspicion of >> being involved in a crime, you are not asked to positively identify >> yourself. >> > > there is a huge difference between the typical requirements to > "identify yourself" and the current proposals that would require > biometric ID cards tied to a national database. In the typical > situation of needing to identify yourself you only need to verbally > provide your real name. If you are driving and don't have your > license with you then you might get a ticket for not having it with > you (if you have one) or for not having a license (if you don't have > one) when they run your name thru the system. Absent your name being > in the database of warrants they are not going to arrest you because > you don't have any "papers" on you. There currently exist portable retina and finger print scanning devices which can be carried in any police cruiser and tied into the national identification database. If you don't have your ID, the police can scan your thumbprint or your retina, right then and there and verify your identity. Virtually all Police cruisers already carry computers and are tied into law enforcement databases. Personally, I do not see this as being any more invasive, especially if you are lawfully detained by an officer based upon "reasonable suspicion" as upheld by the SCOTUS. If your issue is with the conditions under which you can be lawfully detained and then positively identified, than this would be a completely different debate. However, I have not seen ANY changes in the USA to the conditions pertaining to detention. > > Where this country seems to be heading, and where I'm afraid people > who hold the attitude you seem to hold are helping it head, is to > where we will all be required to have an ID with us at all times and > it will have to be a biometric ID tied to a combination of our finger > prints, eyeballs and sphincter strength or some such unique and > difficult to copy identifier and all of that will be maintained in a > master computer system with all sorts of other info on us along with a > RFID chip in the card that you will have to scan to enter parking > lots, building, airports, your workplace, etc. It will start with the > airports with every entry and exit being reported to the gvt and > spread until your every movement is tracked by the gvt. Hell, they > practically do that now in Chicago just with their 10,000 surveillance > cameras. Maybe that's the kind of world you want to live in... It's > not the kind of world I want to live in.
From: JohnJohnsn on 24 Jun 2010 09:38
On Jun 22, 3:37 pm, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On 2010-06-22, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:18:16 +0000 (UTC), Brent >> <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:42:10 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> On 2010-06-22, Brian Wraith <brianwra...(a)newzealand.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 6/22/2010 12:04 PM, Brent wrote: >>>>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>>>>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:35:43 +0000 (UTC), Brent >>>>>>>>>> <tetraethylleadREMOVET...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 2010-06-22, Lookout<mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> I've been a favor of a national ID card for 30 years. > >>>>>>>>>>> "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or >>>>>>>>>>> numbered. My life is my own." > >>>>>>>>>> You already are. You have a SSN and a drivers license. >>>>>>>>>> The government knows everything about you. > >>>>>>>>> Why do you support making it worse? > >>>>>>> It's your opinion that it would get worse. > >>>>>>> Name a police state where your papers were checked routinely to make >>>>>>> sure you were permitted to be in that country, work there, etc is one >>>>>>> you would like to live in. > >>>>>>>>> Seems you missed the reference, it's from "The Prisoner". >>>>>>>>> Why do you wish to increase the imprisonment? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's your opinion. I disagree. > >>>>>>> How turning the USA into a full blown 'paper's please' police state >>>>>>> not make things worse? > >>>>>> Name a single western country, where if you are stopped for suspicion >>>>>> of being involved in a crime, you are not asked to positively identify >>>>>> yourself. > >>>>> What crime am I suspected of at a police checkpoint? > >>>>>> The ignorant propaganda being spread by the "open border" >>>>>> socialists /marxists is simply far too transparent. > >>>>> Ahh another person who can't see through the programming. It's about >>>>> power. Both the left and right love power. You want to see how national >>>>> ID papers systems work? Pick a communist country and take a look. > >>>> Last time I checked we're not a communist country. > >>> Read the communist manifesto and see how much has been implemented. > >> One last time..this ISN'T a communist nation. > > Sounds like you don't understand what communism is. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto > 10 point program of Communism > > 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land > to public purposes. > > ---> Property taxes and the New London decision achieve this. > > 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. > > ---> Have had that since 1913. > > 3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. > > ---> various heavy taxes achieve this. > > 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. > > ---> civil asset forfititure and other laws and executive orders. > > 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of > a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. > > ---> Federal Reserve Act, 1913. > > 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport > in the hands of the State. > > ---> FCC, access to government for reporting, CIA funding, etc. > US DOT, FAA, etc and so on. > > 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by > the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the > improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common > plan. > > ---> Numerous regulations achieve this. BP oil disaster in the Gulf is but > the latest famous example on numerous levels. > > 8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial > armies, especially for agriculture. > > ---> Countless labor regulations and acts including the minimum wage. > > 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual > abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more > equitable distribution of the population over the country. > > ---> Various regulations and subsidies to agriculture which have favored > giant agri-business. > > 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of > children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of > education with industrial production. > > ---->Compulsory school attendence has been around for a very long > time now. > > The USA is rather uncomfortably like a communist country. > More details including specific laws, executive order numbers, > etc here: > http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html > >>> But what makes you think our rulers are fundamentally better >>> people than the rulers in other nations? > >> You seem to be worried about other nations. I'm not. > > You seem fixated on 'can't happen here'. Our rulers are not > fundamentally better people, so yes, it can. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." --George Santayana "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." Edmund Burke |