From: E. Meyer on
On 10/30/09 8:28 AM, in article
QZSdnQ3BVveZd3fXnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com, "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote:

>
> "80 Knight" <nospam(a)please.com> wrote in message
> news:KsqdnQER_vMh8HfXnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>
>>> That argument is officially irrelevant now since the Feds gave Chrysler
>>> to
>>> Fiat, Hummer to China. Apparently sending the money across the border is
>>> now the new American way. Funny how the Italians & Chinese think they
>>> can
>>> make money selling that same stuff.
>>
>> There isn't anything "new" about it. North America has been selling
>> itself out to other countries for many years. Take a look at where your
>> computer, TV, microwave, etc., were built. They were once built here, by
>> American workers, but not any longer. The same is happening with the auto
>> industry. Too many people like "SMS" think the Japanese are some type of
>> God's, who can do anything better then the American's, and have no problem
>> sleeping at night knowing our children will be forced to flip burgers at
>> McDonald's for a living...providing there are enough people making enough
>> money to *buy* the McDonald's...
>
> Neither Hummer nor Chrysler were capable of competing profitably, I guess
> Chrysler has been in trouble for years, thinking back to the days when Lee
> Iacocca struggled to keep them from going totally under.
>
> I agree with Knight, however, that our "government" has made it too easy
> for our American companies to send production to sweatshop countries and
> then reimport the product and make a killing.
>
> I heard just the other day that iPhone by Apple is populated with parts from
> Japan and perhaps Korea, and then assembled in China. The hard parts
> manufacturers capture some $27 and a little more for the cost of the iPhone.
> China makes about $4.00 per unit for the assembly. In the end, Apple takes
> about 50% of the sales price of the phone in the USA as profit. Maybe a
> smart business decision but it humps the economy and the jobs here in
> the target market. The object of the study was the design, innovation,
> and
> planning make the money. It doesnt take any particular talent to put a
> screw
> in a hole.
>
> One of the reasons our kids have to flip burgers or roll tacos is that many
> of them do not prepare themselves for design, innovative and planning jobs.
> There was a time when a high school graduate could get a job, rear a family,
> buy a home, and have a good life. That is getting much much harder to do.
>

My point was that the "new" part with Hummer & Chrysler was that the
government forced it. I can't wait to see what happens the next time some
still existing American company tries to get the govt. to impose
anti-dumping levies against one of these companies that were forced off
shore by that same govt.

From: hls on

"E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:C7108A9E.13581%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com...
> On 10/30/09 8:28 AM, in article
> QZSdnQ3BVveZd3fXnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com, "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "80 Knight" <nospam(a)please.com> wrote in message
>> news:KsqdnQER_vMh8HfXnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>
>>>> That argument is officially irrelevant now since the Feds gave Chrysler
>>>> to
>>>> Fiat, Hummer to China. Apparently sending the money across the border
>>>> is
>>>> now the new American way. Funny how the Italians & Chinese think they
>>>> can
>>>> make money selling that same stuff.
>>>
>>> There isn't anything "new" about it. North America has been selling
>>> itself out to other countries for many years. Take a look at where your
>>> computer, TV, microwave, etc., were built. They were once built here,
>>> by
>>> American workers, but not any longer. The same is happening with the
>>> auto
>>> industry. Too many people like "SMS" think the Japanese are some type of
>>> God's, who can do anything better then the American's, and have no
>>> problem
>>> sleeping at night knowing our children will be forced to flip burgers at
>>> McDonald's for a living...providing there are enough people making
>>> enough
>>> money to *buy* the McDonald's...
>>
>> Neither Hummer nor Chrysler were capable of competing profitably, I guess
>> Chrysler has been in trouble for years, thinking back to the days when
>> Lee
>> Iacocca struggled to keep them from going totally under.
>>
>> I agree with Knight, however, that our "government" has made it too easy
>> for our American companies to send production to sweatshop countries and
>> then reimport the product and make a killing.
>>
>> I heard just the other day that iPhone by Apple is populated with parts
>> from
>> Japan and perhaps Korea, and then assembled in China. The hard parts
>> manufacturers capture some $27 and a little more for the cost of the
>> iPhone.
>> China makes about $4.00 per unit for the assembly. In the end, Apple
>> takes
>> about 50% of the sales price of the phone in the USA as profit. Maybe a
>> smart business decision but it humps the economy and the jobs here in
>> the target market. The object of the study was the design, innovation,
>> and
>> planning make the money. It doesnt take any particular talent to put a
>> screw
>> in a hole.
>>
>> One of the reasons our kids have to flip burgers or roll tacos is that
>> many
>> of them do not prepare themselves for design, innovative and planning
>> jobs.
>> There was a time when a high school graduate could get a job, rear a
>> family,
>> buy a home, and have a good life. That is getting much much harder to
>> do.
>>
>
> My point was that the "new" part with Hummer & Chrysler was that the
> government forced it. I can't wait to see what happens the next time some
> still existing American company tries to get the govt. to impose
> anti-dumping levies against one of these companies that were forced off
> shore by that same govt.

I dont think American companies have been penalized nearly enough for
dumping, tying, and other economic infractions. Neither have the foreign
producers.

We have had a nutless government for a long time.

From: SMS on
Dave wrote:

> Foreign built or foreign owned, either way money is going across the
> border.

It's very very different.

U.S. built vehicles made with high domestic content contribute a huge
amount of money to the U.S. economy, even if the stockholders of the
company are mostly outside the U.S.. Many of those vehicles are also
designed in the U.S..
From: clare on
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:13:42 -0500, "Dave" <hairy411(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:o0vhe5hjrr57i7ek09gj6fbra5pvbu94fb(a)4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:32:38 -0400, "C. E. White"
>> <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>>> The problem I see is that those rankings don't list the actual
>>>> percentages. They could be closely grouped together. No one argues that
>>>> Toyotas and Hondas have greater longevity and reliability than Fords or
>>>> Chevys, the debate is over how much greater longevity and how much
>>>> greater
>>>> reliability.
>>>
>>>This is a ridiculous claim. If you said, "I believe" Toyota and Hondas
>>>have
>>>greater reliability, then I coudn't argue about what you believe. If you
>>>said many people believe that Toyotas and Hondas have greater reliability
>>>that Fords and Chevies, then I'd actually agree with you. But I certainly
>>>can argue about the corretness of this belief. It is my personal experince
>>>that Toyotas and particualrly Hondas, are not as durable as American cars.
>>
>> You have to specify a model/engine.
>> What Toyota and Honda have done is concentrate on putting quality and
>> engineering in what they want to sell.
>> The domestic brands seldom do that.
>> That's why Camry/Corolla/Accord/Civic have done well.
>> Although I believe the general public holds onto certain myths,
>> there's a basis in the Toyota/Honda myths.
>> With domestics you have to pick well, and if you're a new car buyer
>> hope it works out.
>> I'm a Chevy fan, but I buy used and know what I'm getting.
>> Spend very little per mile driven.
>> I'm sure the same can be done with Fords, but I don't know them.
>> But if I were to buy new, I might go for a Toyota or Honda.
>> Probably feel more secure about getting good engineering and a company
>> that stands behind their cars, and also because the Chevys are
>> foreign-built. I don't like sending money over the border.
>>
> Foreign built or foreign owned, either way money is going across the
>border.


Only if you are buying your USED Chevies from across the border
yourself. The manufacturer only gets paid for them ONCE.
From: clare on
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:45:34 -0600, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:13:42 -0500, "Dave" <hairy411(a)hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:o0vhe5hjrr57i7ek09gj6fbra5pvbu94fb(a)4ax.com...
>
>>> Probably feel more secure about getting good engineering and a company
>>> that stands behind their cars, and also because the Chevys are
>>> foreign-built. I don't like sending money over the border.
>>>
>> Foreign built or foreign owned, either way money is going across the
>>border.
>
>I was just guessing that the workers putting the cars together within
>our borders are getting paid for doing that.
>And that they spend some of their wages locally, providing even more
>work.
>Could be wrong though. Maybe having the middlemen just import a ready
>made product from a foreign country is better for the economy.
>That's what they say on Wall street I think.
>Pretty smart guys there.
>
>--Vic
You ARE joking, I hope (about the clowns on Wall Street being SMART?)