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From: Jeff on 12 Jun 2010 17:51
Judy Zappacosta <zappajNOSPAM(a)Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
news:258f43e2f24c75cd9f97f3704df13af8(a)tioat.net:

> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 04:14:06 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> It isnt possible in the ultimate, because the rebate a particular
>> dealer gets from the manufacturer varys considerably, particularly
>> with how they finance the cars they have on the floor etc.
>
> But what's the closest we can get?
>
> I am hoping to get closer than to 'value' pricing at Edmunds:
> http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/102203/article.html
>
> Is there a way to get factory invoice at least?
>

www.kbb.com

Most invoice prices I have checked in the past run pretty close to 10% less
than the list price for many car makes.

From: Rod Speed on 12 Jun 2010 19:50
a real cheapskate wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....(a)gmail.com> wrote
>> Tegger wrote
>>> Judy Zappacosta zappajNOS...(a)Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid wrote

>>>> Where can I get the dealer's true cost for a Honda Accord or CRV?
>>>> I went to Edmunds but they only have something called "true
>>>> value", which is not the dealer cost but what people (somehow told
>>>> them they) paid.

>>>> I googled and found tons of car salesmen who would give me
>>>> car quotes by email if I gave them all my personal information.
>>>> But, I just anonymously want to find the dealer cost?
>>>> Does a website exist which will show us dealer cost?

>>> What does it matter?

>> It does tell you the price they wont go below unless they are in a
>> very desperate situation financially and need to avoid going broke etc.

>>> Just get on-the-road quotes from a few dealerships
>>> in your area. Pick the lowest one. End of story.

>> Fraid not.

> dealer cost is intentially obscured by a lot of manufacturer specials
> givebacks and advertising sharing.

What I said elsewhere in different words.


From: MAS on 12 Jun 2010 19:54
On 6/12/2010 7:02 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the salesman
> and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you into caving-in and
> signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>
> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
>
> The manager won't sign for your price? Then your asking price is too low.
> End of story.
>

If any car salesman says he can't authorize the deal, without going to
his manager, I walk. One time, I had a salesman tell me he had to speak
to his manager first. I could see his reflection, and pretty much the
whole room, in a mirror while he was in the back room "talking with his
manager." No one else was in the room - he was watching TV for a bit,
while we were supposed to mull over his coming counter-offer. When he
came back out and said the deal was rejected, I left.
From: George on 13 Jun 2010 09:33
On 6/13/2010 9:19 AM, Tegger wrote:
> "D. Ohl"<dohl(a)Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid> wrote in
> news:d79cdab94496ddd36432f386ca4e7aa0(a)tioat.net:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:02:42 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:
>>
>>> Then you spend the better part of an hour in purgatory while the
>>> salesman and his manager try their very best to high-pressure you
>>> into caving-in and signing for a higher price than they quoted.
>>
>> What I do is go to Car Bargains (checkbook.com)
>
>
>
> Actually you go to checkbook.ORG.
>
> Checkbook.com is a "parked" domain used as an advertising site.
>
> The concept of checkbook.org is intriguing, and I'd never heard of it
> before. They're US-based, and there's no mention of Canada (where I live)
> on their site.
>
> How do they get paid for what they do?



"ORDER NOW
Avoid Hassles & Save Money
Only $200 ($175 for CHECKBOOK Subscribers)"


>
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> WHy would anyone spend an hour haggling with a salesman?
>
>
>
> The haggling is all done on their side, not mine.
>
> I have their quote, which pins down the price. Now all I need to do is get
> them to /sign/ for that amount. It normally takes the salesman and his
> manager a while to realize that I will not budge from the quoted amount, no
> matter what they do to try and wear me down.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>

From: James on 14 Jun 2010 10:45
On Jun 13, 4:10 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Vic Smith wrote
>
> > Tegger <inva...(a)invalid.inv> wrote
> >> Your only weapon is the threat of walking out. You must be -- and
> >> explicitly appear to be -- completely unafraid of using that weapon.
> >> The manager won't sign for your price?
> >> Then your asking price is too low. End of story.
> > That about sums it up.
>
> Nope.
>
> The other obvious possibility is that the manager has decided that you can be conned.
>
> Doesnt mean that is true.

Conned or upsold....

What happens in the business office is the saleperson brings the quote
in and the Sales/Business Manager is calculating how much profit is in
the sale, before they approve the deal. Note that if your car is in
high demand, he will have a minimum profit already in his head. On the
other hand, if your car has been on the lot for 11 months, its a dog
to him and he just wants it gone, so he can order another car that
will turn over faster. He may even sell it at a loss.

What the business manager knows is the incentive packages/rebates from
the manufacturer. In many cases they could sell you some vehicles at
invoice cost and make a good profit from these rebates, in other cases
there are no rebates (high demand cars).

If the business manager thinks the profit is too low, they will strong
arm you into buying things like paint protector, rust proofing etc.
They will try to sell you these in any case, but in some cases, they
push harder. These are the most profitable items in the dealership,
with the highest markups, so if you really want them, bargain hard.
These items may have a margin of 50% or more. They usually count on
you being anxious or tired by this point.

Unless you are in desparate need of a car (never tell a salesperson
that), use your power to walk. It takes a sales manager only a minute
or two to calculate the profit in a deal. If they are deliberately
making you wait, walk, and don't go back.

The profit margins on small cars are also small, not much room to
manouvre. The more expensive cars are more profitable on a percentage
basis. Dealer installable add ons also add to the dealer's profit.
Many dealers make most of their profit from service, so if you have
been a loyal service customer, don't forget to mention that.

James
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