From: Rob on
On 25/07/2010 6:33 PM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> Fredxx formulated on Friday :
>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever
>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. There
>> is a lot more spatter than using gas.
> I suppose that is just a matter of swapping the tip over to 0.8mm?

I run a bigger tip than recommended by the supplier as I find it does
not "weld up" as often when you get too close.
From: Fredxx on

"Malcolm" <malcolm$$1234$$> wrote in message
>>> Been thinking for some time about buying a Welder, i now have an early
>>> VW camper which needs quite a bit of new metal if its ever going to pass
>>> an mot.
>>> So what do i buy, what would be the easiest to learn too use by a
>>> complete novice.
>>> Thanks
>> One last question seems to be different opinions on what gas to use, can
>> i ask what you people use and where you get it from.
>> the small canisters sold seem to be either Co2 or Argon neither seem to
>> be recommended for steel.
>> thanks
>> --
>> Oz
> You can use CO2 or Argon with steel, you must have pure Argon for
> Aluminium and some other specialist welding. Using a home type mig welder
> with aluminium wire can be a nightmare as the wire is too bendy to be
> pushed up the feed pipe. Commercial machines for aluminium welding tend
> to have the feed mechanism at the handle end.
> The proper gas for steel is an Argon/CO2 mix commonly called Argoshield
> which is I think a BOC trademark. CO2 alone is very fussy about machine
> settings and not specially easy to use, it tends to spatter, but is cheap
> if you acquire a pub gas cylinder and get it refilled. Small disposable
> cylinders cost a fortune. Your best bet is to get a pub gas cylinder and
> ask around locally as there are people who will fill them with Argoshield.
> It is of slightly dodgy legality so they tend not to shout about the
> "service".

An argonshield bottle is normally filled at 200 Bar. I though CO2 cylinder
didn't have anything like the same pressure rating?

There are often a number of companies which supply argon/CO2/O2 mixes, but
many years ago I never found a saving over BOC's prices.

From: Jim K on
On 25 July, 12:47, Rob <mesam...(a)> wrote:
> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote:
> > On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)> wrote:
> >> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> >>> Cicero formulated the question :
> >>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
> >>>>> Jim K brought next idea :
> >>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed :
> >>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)
> >>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)>,
> >>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>> news:de442991-
> >>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson"
> >>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> cut through .
> >>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity?
> >>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much
> >>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics
> >>>>>>>>>> which are more important.
> >>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is
> >>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds.
> >>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them.
> >>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would
> >>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than
> >>>>>>>>> the wire?
> >>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever
> >>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same.
> >>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless
> >>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine
> >>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using
> >>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a
> >>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option.
> >>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the
> >>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy
> >>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact
> >>>>>>> with the wire though the coating?
> >>>>>> what coating? :>)
> >>>>>> Jim K
> >>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire,
> >>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood
> >>>>> how it works, I have never seen any?
> >>>> ==============================================================================
> >>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder.
> >>>> Cic.
> >>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes.
> >>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to
> >>> produce with steel.
> >> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire.
> > <snip>
> > AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG
> > welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire?
> > Cheers
> > Jim K
> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and
> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it
> only a polarity thing?


> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the
> required wire thickness.

eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......?

Jim K
From: Fredxx on

"Andy Dingley" <dingbat(a)> wrote in message
> On 24 July, 14:46, Jim K <jk989...(a)> wrote:
>> > CO2 can't be used for MIG,
>> bollox!
> What do you think the "I" in MIG stands for? If you're using CO2,
> it's by definition not MIG and just MAGS (and so works rather
> differently).

Argonshield will have more than just have just argon in it for one. I
recall from a datasheet it had a small oxygen content for "arc stability".

CO2 is pretty inert as oxidising metals go, though I guess it a proportion
may be reduced to CO.

I can assure you it can be used in a MIG welder.

MIG is the generic name for a series of welders, which as you intimate can
also be described by a lesser used acronym MAG.

From: Harry Bloomfield on
It happens that Rob Graham formulated :
> On 25/07/2010 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> Rob laid this down on his screen :
>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. The
>>> results are not so good but still work. Some welders have the option
>>> gas/gasless.
>> It was bought as a gas Mig welder, to do one single job I needed done at
>> the time. I then used it few more times on other jobs, before loosing
>> patience with the silly little expensive gas canisters. Apart from the
>> gas problems it worked quite well, but because of the gas got shoved in
>> a corner and forgotten.
>> So would I likely be able to buy a reel of gasless wire and use that?
> I just converted my fixings to accept CO2 cylinders (pub ones to start with
> but now fire extinguishers.) No problems and far, far cheaper.
> Rob Graham

At one point I got as far as scrounging a CO2 bottle about 4' tall,
with the idea of putting that to use, but it never got any further and
the bottle ended up in a skip.

I would appreciate more details of what you did and where you got what

I notice the gasless wire comes in both 0.8 and 0.9mm sizes, but
Machine Mart only seem to stock the 0.9 - but they sell the tips for
the 0.9mm.

I have just dug my MIG out to see what condition it is in and apart
from the rusted reel of wire, it looks good and runs fine. It is a Pro

Harry (M1BYT) (L)