Which welder
in [Car Maintenance]
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From: Rob on 25 Jul 2010 07:49 On 25/07/2010 6:33 PM, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > Fredxx formulated on Friday : >> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever >> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. There >> is a lot more spatter than using gas. > > I suppose that is just a matter of swapping the tip over to 0.8mm? > I run a bigger tip than recommended by the supplier as I find it does not "weld up" as often when you get too close.
From: Fredxx on 25 Jul 2010 07:56 "Malcolm" <malcolm$$1234$$@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:HfmdnftJXaVJUtTRnZ2dnUVZ8tCdnZ2d(a)bt.com... > > >>> >>> Been thinking for some time about buying a Welder, i now have an early >>> VW camper which needs quite a bit of new metal if its ever going to pass >>> an mot. >>> So what do i buy, what would be the easiest to learn too use by a >>> complete novice. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >> >> One last question seems to be different opinions on what gas to use, can >> i ask what you people use and where you get it from. >> the small canisters sold seem to be either Co2 or Argon neither seem to >> be recommended for steel. >> http://www.toolstation.com/documents/catalogue/?hl=89126 >> thanks >> -- >> Oz > > You can use CO2 or Argon with steel, you must have pure Argon for > Aluminium and some other specialist welding. Using a home type mig welder > with aluminium wire can be a nightmare as the wire is too bendy to be > pushed up the feed pipe. Commercial machines for aluminium welding tend > to have the feed mechanism at the handle end. > > The proper gas for steel is an Argon/CO2 mix commonly called Argoshield > which is I think a BOC trademark. CO2 alone is very fussy about machine > settings and not specially easy to use, it tends to spatter, but is cheap > if you acquire a pub gas cylinder and get it refilled. Small disposable > cylinders cost a fortune. Your best bet is to get a pub gas cylinder and > ask around locally as there are people who will fill them with Argoshield. > It is of slightly dodgy legality so they tend not to shout about the > "service". > An argonshield bottle is normally filled at 200 Bar. I though CO2 cylinder didn't have anything like the same pressure rating? There are often a number of companies which supply argon/CO2/O2 mixes, but many years ago I never found a saving over BOC's prices.
From: Jim K on 25 Jul 2010 09:37 On 25 July, 12:47, Rob <mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote: > > > > > On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > > >>> Cicero formulated the question : > >>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > > >>>>> Jim K brought next idea : > >>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed : > > >>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk... > >>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > >>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>> news:de442991- > >>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson" > >>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to > >>>>>>>>>>>> cut through . > > >>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity? > >>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much > >>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics > >>>>>>>>>> which are more important. > > >>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is > >>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds. > >>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them. > >>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would > >>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than > >>>>>>>>> the wire? > >>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever > >>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. > >>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless > >>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine > >>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using > >>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a > >>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option. > > >>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the > >>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy > >>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact > >>>>>>> with the wire though the coating? > > >>>>>> what coating? :>) > > >>>>>> Jim K > > >>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire, > >>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood > >>>>> how it works, I have never seen any? > > >>>> ============================================================================== > > >>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder. > > >>>> Cic. > > >>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes. > > >>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to > >>> produce with steel. > > >> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. > > > <snip> > > > AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG > > welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire? > > > Cheers > > Jim K > > Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and > not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it > only a polarity thing? AFAIK yes > I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the > required wire thickness. eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......? Cheers Jim K
From: Fredxx on 25 Jul 2010 13:44 "Andy Dingley" <dingbat(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message news:136207c1-9460-4838-b358-1df26debcb64(a)w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com... > On 24 July, 14:46, Jim K <jk989...(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > >> > CO2 can't be used for MIG, >> >> bollox! > > What do you think the "I" in MIG stands for? If you're using CO2, > it's by definition not MIG and just MAGS (and so works rather > differently). Argonshield will have more than just have just argon in it for one. I recall from a datasheet it had a small oxygen content for "arc stability". CO2 is pretty inert as oxidising metals go, though I guess it a proportion may be reduced to CO. I can assure you it can be used in a MIG welder. MIG is the generic name for a series of welders, which as you intimate can also be described by a lesser used acronym MAG.
From: Harry Bloomfield on 25 Jul 2010 14:08
It happens that Rob Graham formulated : > On 25/07/2010 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote: >> Rob laid this down on his screen : >>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. The >>> results are not so good but still work. Some welders have the option >>> gas/gasless. >> >> It was bought as a gas Mig welder, to do one single job I needed done at >> the time. I then used it few more times on other jobs, before loosing >> patience with the silly little expensive gas canisters. Apart from the >> gas problems it worked quite well, but because of the gas got shoved in >> a corner and forgotten. >> >> So would I likely be able to buy a reel of gasless wire and use that? >> >> >> > > I just converted my fixings to accept CO2 cylinders (pub ones to start with > but now fire extinguishers.) No problems and far, far cheaper. > > Rob Graham At one point I got as far as scrounging a CO2 bottle about 4' tall, with the idea of putting that to use, but it never got any further and the bottle ended up in a skip. I would appreciate more details of what you did and where you got what please. I notice the gasless wire comes in both 0.8 and 0.9mm sizes, but Machine Mart only seem to stock the 0.9 - but they sell the tips for the 0.9mm. I have just dug my MIG out to see what condition it is in and apart from the rusted reel of wire, it looks good and runs fine. It is a Pro 90 -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |