Which welder
in [Car Maintenance]
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From: T i m on 25 Jul 2010 14:55 On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:08:26 +0100, Harry Bloomfield <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > >At one point I got as far as scrounging a CO2 bottle about 4' tall, >with the idea of putting that to use, but it never got any further and >the bottle ended up in a skip. > >I would appreciate more details of what you did and where you got what >please. I also like the idea of a rent-free MIG bottle but there don't seem to be any places real local that do them (Nth London / Herts) [1]. I could go for the one mentioned here elsewhere as my Argoshield (Light) has been sitting there for years mostly unused because I know the moment I back it I'll need it. ;-( > >I notice the gasless wire comes in both 0.8 and 0.9mm sizes, but >Machine Mart only seem to stock the 0.9 - but they sell the tips for >the 0.9mm. > >I have just dug my MIG out to see what condition it is in and apart >from the rusted reel of wire, it looks good and runs fine. It is a Pro >90 I have a little Lincoln SP170 (bought for me by the Mrs) and I also have a new roll of gasless wire (and the kit to run it). I might set it up gasless and give it a proper go. Cheers, T i m [1] I think the nearest place was Luton (not too bad) but I can't remember what the deal was now.
From: Rob on 25 Jul 2010 17:08 On 25/07/2010 11:37 PM, Jim K wrote: > On 25 July, 12:47, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote: >> >>>>> Cicero formulated the question : >>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote: >> >>>>>>> Jim K brought next idea : >>>>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed : >> >>>>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk... >>>>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:de442991- >>>>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson" >>>>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cut through . >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity? >>>>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much >>>>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics >>>>>>>>>>>> which are more important. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is >>>>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds. >>>>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them. >>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would >>>>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than >>>>>>>>>>> the wire? >>>>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever >>>>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. >>>>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless >>>>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine >>>>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using >>>>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a >>>>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option. >> >>>>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the >>>>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy >>>>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact >>>>>>>>> with the wire though the coating? >> >>>>>>>> what coating? :>) >> >>>>>>>> Jim K >> >>>>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire, >>>>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood >>>>>>> how it works, I have never seen any? >> >>>>>> ============================================================================== >> >>>>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder. >> >>>>>> Cic. >> >>>>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes. >> >>>>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to >>>>> produce with steel. >> >>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. >> >>> <snip> >> >>> AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG >>> welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire? >> >>> Cheers >>> Jim K >> >> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and >> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it >> only a polarity thing? > > AFAIK yes > >> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the >> required wire thickness. > > eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......? > > Cheers > Jim K Small machines which are intended to run a smaller gauge may not run thicker wire in Gasless mode satisfactory. Not sure what is available in gasless wire. Thin wire makes a slow job of putting down a weld. (and uses more gas)
From: Mark on 25 Jul 2010 17:50 Andy Dingley wrote: > On 24 July, 23:15, Mark <M...(a)127.0.0.1> wrote: > >> AD loves the book theory so much he swallowed it, > > That's why I can weld, Yes great, but why introduce spray transfer when replying to the OPs gas question with the likely welder he would be buying and using it on. About as useful as Dave Plowmans advice to use pure Argon.�
From: Jim K on 26 Jul 2010 04:44 On 25 July, 22:08, Rob <mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 25/07/2010 11:37 PM, Jim K wrote: > > > > > On 25 July, 12:47, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote: > > >>> On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > > >>>>> Cicero formulated the question : > >>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > > >>>>>>> Jim K brought next idea : > >>>>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed : > > >>>>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk... > >>>>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > >>>>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>> news:de442991- > >>>>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson" > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cut through . > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity? > >>>>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much > >>>>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics > >>>>>>>>>>>> which are more important. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is > >>>>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds. > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them. > >>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would > >>>>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than > >>>>>>>>>>> the wire? > >>>>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever > >>>>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. > >>>>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless > >>>>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine > >>>>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using > >>>>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a > >>>>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option. > > >>>>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the > >>>>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy > >>>>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact > >>>>>>>>> with the wire though the coating? > > >>>>>>>> what coating? :>) > > >>>>>>>> Jim K > > >>>>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire, > >>>>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood > >>>>>>> how it works, I have never seen any? > > >>>>>> ============================================================================== > > >>>>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder. > > >>>>>> Cic. > > >>>>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes. > > >>>>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to > >>>>> produce with steel. > > >>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. > > >>> <snip> > > >>> AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG > >>> welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire? > > >>> Cheers > >>> Jim K > > >> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and > >> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it > >> only a polarity thing? > > > AFAIK yes > > >> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the > >> required wire thickness. > > > eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......? > > > Cheers > > Jim K > > Small machines which are intended to run a smaller gauge may not run > thicker wire in Gasless mode satisfactory. eh? - they'll either run it or not shurely? what's this "satisfactory" bit alluding to? >Not sure what is available in gasless wire. AIUI you can get 0.8mm or 0.9mm gasless MIG wire > Thin wire makes a slow job of putting down a weld. (and uses more gas) eh? if it's gasless wire you won't be using gas?! Cheers Jim K
From: Andy Dingley on 26 Jul 2010 05:00
On 25 July, 22:50, Mark <M...(a)127.0.0.1> wrote: > Yes great, but why introduce spray transfer when replying to the OPs gas > question with the likely welder he would be buying and using it on. Because this is a newsgroup, not an email. It's a mistake to make the discussion overly narrow, assuming an audience of just one. Spray transfer is relevant to DIY welders on anything above thin sheet, whether you're welding car (separate) chassis or barbecues. > About as useful as Dave Plowmans advice to use pure Argon. There is some sense to using pure argon. If all you can afford is one cylinder rental for an argon-based shield gas, and you also want to weld aluminium (or run a TIG too), then pure argon works tolerably well for steel too. |