From: Dave Plowman (News) on 26 Jul 2010 05:23 In article <8dcf463d-de0e-4769-9a31-5fdfe73ef96a(a)q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, Andy Dingley <dingbat(a)codesmiths.com> wrote: > > About as useful as Dave Plowmans advice to use pure Argon. > There is some sense to using pure argon. If all you can afford is one > cylinder rental for an argon-based shield gas, and you also want to > weld aluminium (or run a TIG too), then pure argon works tolerably > well for steel too. My limited experience said there was little difference with thin steel using either argon or argosheild. But argon seems cheaper to buy on Ebay in a quantity of small bottles. And I do have to sometimes weld aluminium and stainless steel. -- *Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Rob on 26 Jul 2010 08:18 On 26/07/2010 6:44 PM, Jim K wrote: > On 25 July, 22:08, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 25/07/2010 11:37 PM, Jim K wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 25 July, 12:47, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote: >> >>>>> On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote: >> >>>>>>> Cicero formulated the question : >>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> Jim K brought next idea : >>>>>>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed : >> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk... >>>>>>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:de442991- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cut through . >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are more important. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than >>>>>>>>>>>>> the wire? >>>>>>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever >>>>>>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. >>>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless >>>>>>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine >>>>>>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using >>>>>>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a >>>>>>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option. >> >>>>>>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the >>>>>>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy >>>>>>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact >>>>>>>>>>> with the wire though the coating? >> >>>>>>>>>> what coating? :>) >> >>>>>>>>>> Jim K >> >>>>>>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire, >>>>>>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood >>>>>>>>> how it works, I have never seen any? >> >>>>>>>> ============================================================================== >> >>>>>>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder. >> >>>>>>>> Cic. >> >>>>>>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes. >> >>>>>>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to >>>>>>> produce with steel. >> >>>>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. >> >>>>> <snip> >> >>>>> AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG >>>>> welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire? >> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Jim K >> >>>> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and >>>> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it >>>> only a polarity thing? >> >>> AFAIK yes >> >>>> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the >>>> required wire thickness. >> >>> eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......? >> >>> Cheers >>> Jim K >> > >> Small machines which are intended to run a smaller gauge may not run >> thicker wire in Gasless mode satisfactory. > > eh? - they'll either run it or not shurely? what's this "satisfactory" > bit alluding to? > >> Not sure what is available in gasless wire. > > AIUI you can get 0.8mm or 0.9mm gasless MIG wire > >> Thin wire makes a slow job of putting down a weld. (and uses more gas) > > eh? if it's gasless wire you won't be using gas?! > > Cheers > Jim K Think were talking about two different things here!
From: Jim K on 26 Jul 2010 08:20 On 26 July, 13:18, Rob <mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 26/07/2010 6:44 PM, Jim K wrote: > > > > > On 25 July, 22:08, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 25/07/2010 11:37 PM, Jim K wrote: > > >>> On 25 July, 12:47, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote: > > >>>>> On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > > >>>>>>> Cicero formulated the question : > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> Jim K brought next idea : > >>>>>>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed : > > >>>>>>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>>news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:de442991- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson" > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cut through . > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are more important. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would > >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the wire? > >>>>>>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever > >>>>>>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same. > >>>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless > >>>>>>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine > >>>>>>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using > >>>>>>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a > >>>>>>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option. > > >>>>>>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the > >>>>>>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy > >>>>>>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact > >>>>>>>>>>> with the wire though the coating? > > >>>>>>>>>> what coating? :>) > > >>>>>>>>>> Jim K > > >>>>>>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire, > >>>>>>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood > >>>>>>>>> how it works, I have never seen any? > > >>>>>>>> ============================================================================== > > >>>>>>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder. > > >>>>>>>> Cic. > > >>>>>>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes. > > >>>>>>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to > >>>>>>> produce with steel. > > >>>>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. > > >>>>> <snip> > > >>>>> AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG > >>>>> welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire? > > >>>>> Cheers > >>>>> Jim K > > >>>> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and > >>>> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it > >>>> only a polarity thing? > > >>> AFAIK yes > > >>>> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the > >>>> required wire thickness. > > >>> eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......? > > >>> Cheers > >>> Jim K > > >> Small machines which are intended to run a smaller gauge may not run > >> thicker wire in Gasless mode satisfactory. > > > eh? - they'll either run it or not shurely? what's this "satisfactory" > > bit alluding to? > > >> Not sure what is available in gasless wire. > > > AIUI you can get 0.8mm or 0.9mm gasless MIG wire > > >> Thin wire makes a slow job of putting down a weld. (and uses more gas) > > > eh? if it's gasless wire you won't be using gas?! > > > Cheers > > Jim K > > Think were talking about two different things here! can you explain what you are on about?!
From: asahartz on 26 Jul 2010 10:29 On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:08:26 +0100, Harry Bloomfield <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >It happens that Rob Graham formulated : >> On 25/07/2010 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote: >>> Rob laid this down on his screen : >>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. The >>>> results are not so good but still work. Some welders have the option >>>> gas/gasless. >>> >>> It was bought as a gas Mig welder, to do one single job I needed done at >>> the time. I then used it few more times on other jobs, before loosing >>> patience with the silly little expensive gas canisters. Apart from the >>> gas problems it worked quite well, but because of the gas got shoved in >>> a corner and forgotten. >>> >>> So would I likely be able to buy a reel of gasless wire and use that? >>> >>> >>> >> >> I just converted my fixings to accept CO2 cylinders (pub ones to start with >> but now fire extinguishers.) No problems and far, far cheaper. >> >> Rob Graham > >At one point I got as far as scrounging a CO2 bottle about 4' tall, >with the idea of putting that to use, but it never got any further and >the bottle ended up in a skip. > >I would appreciate more details of what you did and where you got what >please. > Machine Mart do a conversion pipe. Just separate the gas pipe (usually plastic) which goes into the mini-bottle regulator and connect it to the conversion pipe. The regulator is 1R2C on this page: http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/guid/628688F9-084E-41F1-87F3-ADE549DC71BB and the conversion pipe is one of these two http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/details/gas-regulator-hose/path/diy-mig-welders - can't remember which size without looking in the garage. -- asahartz woz ere
From: Tony (UncleFista) on 27 Jul 2010 08:15
"Andy Dingley" <dingbat(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message news:02160f31-b96d-4c16-982b-22daa5dce148(a)t2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com... > It can't be used for spray transfer, so forget it for thick stuff > (including kitcar spaceframes or suspension components) Not true, I built my locost out of 1.6mm wall tube, with CO2 using a dodgy 2nd hand mig welder with absolutely "no" experience of welding. It turned out great and in the 6 years it's been on the road, hardly anything's fallen off ;) The welds are a bit taller, it runs a bit hotter but it's fine. Example pic http://www.roadkill.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/02/locost0019.jpg -- Tony Bond / UncleFista www.bradford7.co.uk Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra. Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath. At night the ice-weasels come... |