From: Dave Plowman (News) on
In article
<8dcf463d-de0e-4769-9a31-5fdfe73ef96a(a)q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
Andy Dingley <dingbat(a)codesmiths.com> wrote:
> > About as useful as Dave Plowmans advice to use pure Argon.

> There is some sense to using pure argon. If all you can afford is one
> cylinder rental for an argon-based shield gas, and you also want to
> weld aluminium (or run a TIG too), then pure argon works tolerably
> well for steel too.

My limited experience said there was little difference with thin steel
using either argon or argosheild. But argon seems cheaper to buy on Ebay
in a quantity of small bottles. And I do have to sometimes weld aluminium
and stainless steel.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Rob on
On 26/07/2010 6:44 PM, Jim K wrote:
> On 25 July, 22:08, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 25/07/2010 11:37 PM, Jim K wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 25 July, 12:47, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote:
>>
>>>>> On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Cicero formulated the question :
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>> Jim K brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed :
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:de442991-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cut through .
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are more important.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wire?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever
>>>>>>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless
>>>>>>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine
>>>>>>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using
>>>>>>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a
>>>>>>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the
>>>>>>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy
>>>>>>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact
>>>>>>>>>>> with the wire though the coating?
>>
>>>>>>>>>> what coating? :>)
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jim K
>>
>>>>>>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire,
>>>>>>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood
>>>>>>>>> how it works, I have never seen any?
>>
>>>>>>>> ==============================================================================
>>
>>>>>>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder.
>>
>>>>>>>> Cic.
>>
>>>>>>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes.
>>
>>>>>>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to
>>>>>>> produce with steel.
>>
>>>>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire.
>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>
>>>>> AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG
>>>>> welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire?
>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Jim K
>>
>>>> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and
>>>> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it
>>>> only a polarity thing?
>>
>>> AFAIK yes
>>
>>>> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the
>>>> required wire thickness.
>>
>>> eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......?
>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Jim K
>>
>
>> Small machines which are intended to run a smaller gauge may not run
>> thicker wire in Gasless mode satisfactory.
>
> eh? - they'll either run it or not shurely? what's this "satisfactory"
> bit alluding to?
>
>> Not sure what is available in gasless wire.
>
> AIUI you can get 0.8mm or 0.9mm gasless MIG wire
>
>> Thin wire makes a slow job of putting down a weld. (and uses more gas)
>
> eh? if it's gasless wire you won't be using gas?!
>
> Cheers
> Jim K

Think were talking about two different things here!
From: Jim K on
On 26 July, 13:18, Rob <mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26/07/2010 6:44 PM, Jim K wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 25 July, 22:08, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 25/07/2010 11:37 PM, Jim K wrote:
>
> >>> On 25 July, 12:47, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 25/07/2010 6:13 PM, Jim K wrote:
>
> >>>>> On 25 July, 09:00, Rob<mesam...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 25/07/2010 6:37 AM, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Cicero formulated the question :
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:51:00 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> Jim K brought next idea :
> >>>>>>>>>> On 24 July, 19:57, Harry Bloomfield<harry.m1...(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> on 23/07/2010, Fredxx supposed :
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"<d...(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>news:513b3f1ab8dave(a)davenoise.co.uk...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In article<i2bjsq$p9...(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fredxx<fre...(a)spam.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Andy Dingley"<ding...(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:de442991-
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ca06-4e13-8e58-5fbd1a736...(a)d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 July, 20:43, "steve robinson"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <st...(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not that easy to use on car bodywork though as it tends to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cut through .
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you using the right welder polarity?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read an number of articles which suggest it doesn't make much
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference and that its more the current/voltage characteristics
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are more important.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My MIG is wired for gas, and my understanding the ideal polarity is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reverse for gasless wire, yet I can make satisfactory welds.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have an alternative experience I would like to hear them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting - I have a SIP Migmate for gas only, and would
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the option of gasless. Do you need any other parts other than
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the wire?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I could only get gasless wire at 0.8mm, whereas with gas I only ever
> >>>>>>>>>>>> used 0.6mm. I felt the feed rate ended up being nearly the same.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> There is a lot more spatter than using gas. I have bought gasless
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wire of eBay and found it ok. I think machine
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mart do smaller reels which perhaps you can try out. If I was using
> >>>>>>>>>>>> reels of wire I would go for gas in hired bottles, but as I use a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> reel every year or 2, gasless is the cheaper option.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That is interesting, I have a mig which is designed for gas and the
> >>>>>>>>>>> reason I don't make much use of it is the gas. Gasless would be handy
> >>>>>>>>>>> if it would be able to use it - how do the gasless ones make contact
> >>>>>>>>>>> with the wire though the coating?
>
> >>>>>>>>>> what coating? :>)
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Jim K
>
> >>>>>>>>> I assumed the gas was produced from some sort of coating on the wire,
> >>>>>>>>> which I further assumed would not be conductive. Have I misunderstood
> >>>>>>>>> how it works, I have never seen any?
>
> >>>>>>>> ==============================================================================
>
> >>>>>>>> It's flux *cored* like electrical solder.
>
> >>>>>>>> Cic.
>
> >>>>>>> Thanks. Next time I see some, I buy it and see how it goes.
>
> >>>>>>> I had thought of the 'flux core', but discounted it as impossible to
> >>>>>>> produce with steel.
>
> >>>>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire.
>
> >>>>> <snip>
>
> >>>>> AIUI as long as you can change the polarity of the torch/earth any MIG
> >>>>> welder can run gasless (flux cored) wire?
>
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>> Jim K
>
> >>>> Some have that facility to switch over. I have always only used gas and
> >>>> not familiar with gasless machines only know they are available. Is it
> >>>> only a polarity thing?
>
> >>> AFAIK yes
>
> >>>> I would also be considering if there is enough guts (amps) to the
> >>>> required wire thickness.
>
> >>> eh? wire diameter with gas 0.8mm; gasless 0.8mm......?
>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Jim K
>
> >> Small machines which are intended to run a smaller gauge may not run
> >> thicker wire in Gasless mode satisfactory.
>
> > eh? - they'll either run it or not shurely? what's this "satisfactory"
> > bit alluding to?
>
> >> Not sure what is available in gasless wire.
>
> > AIUI you can get 0.8mm or 0.9mm gasless MIG wire
>
> >> Thin wire makes a slow job of putting down a weld. (and uses more gas)
>
> > eh? if it's gasless wire you won't be using gas?!
>
> > Cheers
> > Jim K
>
> Think were talking about two different things here!

can you explain what you are on about?!
From: asahartz on
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:08:26 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
<harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>It happens that Rob Graham formulated :
>> On 25/07/2010 09:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>> Rob laid this down on his screen :
>>>> You still have to have a MIG that will run the gasless wire. The
>>>> results are not so good but still work. Some welders have the option
>>>> gas/gasless.
>>>
>>> It was bought as a gas Mig welder, to do one single job I needed done at
>>> the time. I then used it few more times on other jobs, before loosing
>>> patience with the silly little expensive gas canisters. Apart from the
>>> gas problems it worked quite well, but because of the gas got shoved in
>>> a corner and forgotten.
>>>
>>> So would I likely be able to buy a reel of gasless wire and use that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I just converted my fixings to accept CO2 cylinders (pub ones to start with
>> but now fire extinguishers.) No problems and far, far cheaper.
>>
>> Rob Graham
>
>At one point I got as far as scrounging a CO2 bottle about 4' tall,
>with the idea of putting that to use, but it never got any further and
>the bottle ended up in a skip.
>
>I would appreciate more details of what you did and where you got what
>please.
>
Machine Mart do a conversion pipe. Just separate the gas pipe (usually
plastic) which goes into the mini-bottle regulator and connect it to the
conversion pipe.

The regulator is 1R2C on this page:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/guid/628688F9-084E-41F1-87F3-ADE549DC71BB
and the conversion pipe is one of these two
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/details/gas-regulator-hose/path/diy-mig-welders
- can't remember which size without looking in the garage.
--
asahartz woz ere
From: Tony (UncleFista) on

"Andy Dingley" <dingbat(a)codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:02160f31-b96d-4c16-982b-22daa5dce148(a)t2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> It can't be used for spray transfer, so forget it for thick stuff
> (including kitcar spaceframes or suspension components)

Not true, I built my locost out of 1.6mm wall tube, with CO2 using a dodgy
2nd hand mig welder with absolutely "no" experience of welding.
It turned out great and in the 6 years it's been on the road, hardly
anything's fallen off ;)

The welds are a bit taller, it runs a bit hotter but it's fine.
Example pic http://www.roadkill.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/02/locost0019.jpg

--

Tony Bond / UncleFista

www.bradford7.co.uk

Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...