a bit OT - car engines in boats.
in [Aussie Drivers]
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From: Jason James on 24 Feb 2007 16:00 "eeviil inc." <imnot(a)there.net> wrote in message news:45e04d63$0$16556$afc38c87(a)news.optusnet.com.au... > Jason James wrote: > > "D Walford" <walford(a)iprimus.com.au> wrote in message > > news:45de7304$0$500$61c65585(a)uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au... > > > >>wonder about it being cost effective. > >>The cost of purchasing and marinising two late model 4cyl TD's may not > >>be a hell of a lot cheaper than buying engines made for the job. > >>Have you shopped around for engine prices? > >>It may be possible to reuse your existing heat exchangers etc and if you > >>can do that then it may be cheaper to use car/truck engines. > > > > > > Remember the stern-drive Valiant Hemi combo photos, used in advertising by I > > think, the stern-drive company involved (Volvo?), back in the '70s? If it > > has been done before, it can be done again. > > > > Jason > > > > > Volvo Penta and Mercury Marine both use both small and big block chevy > engines as a base, obviously modified for marine use. And they have for > many years. So it wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was in fact a Volvo ad. > > Nice way to repower a 2 series Volvo, with genuine Volvo V8 motivation :D > > Getting OT I remember when I was quite young, a relative gave an old > yacht a new lease on life. Had a very old Perkins 4cyl diesel, and a > single speed slushbox. Turned out the bolt pattern on the Perkins was > identical to a Holden 6. I still wished I remembered more about the box, > as I still find it unusual. It appears it was a marine box, and the gear > selector had forward, neutral and reverse. Interesting idea using an auto. Easy drive reversal, and (speculating now) maybe less cavitation if you also included a TConv for those quick launches? The adjustable cav-plate wouldnt be necessary. Jason
From: D Walford on 24 Feb 2007 18:09 JD wrote: > had one of those myself forty years ago, except it was a three cylinder > Perkins. Box was a standard marine one, as you say, forward, neutral, > reverse by a small lever that actuated the hydraulic application of > epicyclic gears, giving a 2:1 reduction both forward and reverse. Probably > not very accurate to call it a slushbox as there was no torque converter. > Can't remember the brand of gearbox. Most marine applications need a > reduction gear for the propeller. I did my apprenticeship with a Perkins diesel dealership so I occasionally got to do a bit of work on marine engines (I mostly worked on tractors and machinery). I can't remember ever putting a spanner on one of those transmissions because nothing ever went wrong with them. IMO replacing a diesel with a petrol engine in a yacht is crazy and asking for trouble from dangerous petrol fumes. Daryl
From: jackbadger56 on 24 Feb 2007 20:03 On Feb 23, 3:52 pm, D Walford <walf...(a)iprimus.com.au> wrote: > jackbadger56 wrote: > > At some stage in the next few years we're going to have to re-power > > our boat as the twin SD33's are pretty tired. I was thinking (just > > thinking!) that fitting modern twin 4cyl turbo-diesels would be worth > > exploring. We've yet to get quotes on the Nissans but I'm sure it will > > cost a fortune simply because it's for a marine application (diesel > > fuel at all the marinas in Pittwater charge about $1.70 per litre, to > > give you an idea of what they can get away with). If we were to use a > > heat-exchanger set-up rather than pumping seawater through them, would > > you really need to do a great deal of modification for marine use? The > > 'engine room' (wow, that sounds grand!) is pretty well sealed and > > there is heaps of room, so maybe any computers etc can be located well > > out of harms way. Two of the marine mechanics I've put this to seem to > > think it should be OK in theory, but had never put any thought into > > it, as they had never been asked. They weren't keen on the idea > > basically, but couldn't really give me a reason why. Has anyone here > > had experience in fitting stock car engines into boats? If so, do you > > think this is feasible? > > > BTW I've looked for an 'Aus.Boats' to ask this, but am also interested > > in what 'car-heads' think of this idea. Traditional boaties are just > > too blinded by......well........tradition, and would be horrified at the > > thought of doing this to a 60yo Halvorsen (despite the fact that it > > currently has Nissan truck motors, which in turn replaced a pair of > > Holden sixes!) > > I can't think of any technical reason why you couldn't do that but I > wonder about it being cost effective. > The cost of purchasing and marinising two late model 4cyl TD's may not > be a hell of a lot cheaper than buying engines made for the job. > Have you shopped around for engine prices? > It may be possible to reuse your existing heat exchangers etc and if you > can do that then it may be cheaper to use car/truck engines. > > Daryl My goal is not to do it cheaper, but to utilise better engines than what is readily available from marine-engine manufacturers. Things like common rail injection etc have yet to filter down to 'common' marine diesels, I.E. the more affordable ones. I'd be very keen to do some of it myself, but finding a marine mechanic who will look at the end result and assess it on its merits rather than trying to find a way of earning more for themselves is the hard part.
From: jackbadger56 on 24 Feb 2007 20:11 On Feb 23, 5:56 pm, John McKenzie <j...(a)alphalink.com.au> wrote: > jackbadger56 wrote: > > > At some stage in the next few years we're going to have to re-power > > our boat as the twin SD33's are pretty tired. I was thinking (just > > thinking!) that fitting modern twin 4cyl turbo-diesels would be worth > > exploring. We've yet to get quotes on the Nissans but I'm sure it will > > cost a fortune simply because it's for a marine application (diesel > > fuel at all the marinas in Pittwater charge about $1.70 per litre, to > > give you an idea of what they can get away with). If we were to use a > > heat-exchanger set-up rather than pumping seawater through them, would > > you really need to do a great deal of modification for marine use? The > > 'engine room' (wow, that sounds grand!) is pretty well sealed and > > there is heaps of room, so maybe any computers etc can be located well > > out of harms way. Two of the marine mechanics I've put this to seem to > > think it should be OK in theory, but had never put any thought into > > it, as they had never been asked. They weren't keen on the idea > > basically, but couldn't really give me a reason why. Has anyone here > > had experience in fitting stock car engines into boats? If so, do you > > think this is feasible? > > > BTW I've looked for an 'Aus.Boats' to ask this, but am also interested > > in what 'car-heads' think of this idea. Traditional boaties are just > > too blinded by......well........tradition, and would be horrified at the > > thought of doing this to a 60yo Halvorsen (despite the fact that it > > currently has Nissan truck motors, which in turn replaced a pair of > > Holden sixes!) > > If fuelling is the main issue, what sort of power are you in need of > (and what sort of rpm, or do you have propellor options? I've got to be > inclined to think that a pair of 'somethings' on lpg would have to run > cheaper. it's not too hard to rig up a trailer with the right fittings > so you can fill 2-4 tanks on it, then run it back and put them in the > boat, similar but on a larger scale than forklift tanks. I have nfi as > to the legality, but I'd be looking into it keenly. It's likely the > cheapest by double to run per km, of course the setup cost might not be > choice. Then again, you might get away with a pair of holdens again, or > something. Maybe a pair of older ford 6s, reasonable torque if not so > rev happy. > > -- > John McKenzie > > toss...(a)aol.com a...(a)yahoo.com a...(a)hotmail.com a...(a)earthlink.com > a...(a)aol.com vice.presid...(a)whitehouse.gov presid...(a)whitehouse.gov > sweep....(a)accc.gov.au u...(a)ftc.gov admin(a)loopback a...(a)iprimus.com.au > If you didn't know it was wrong,why did you cover it up? a...(a)msn.com > $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME(a)localhost -h1024(a)localhost r...(a)mailloop.com > a...(a)federalpolice.gov.au fraudi...(a)psinet.com a...(a)cia.gov > $USER(a)localhost a...(a)sprint.com a...(a)fbi.gov a...(a)asio.gov.au > $LOGIN(a)localhost The current engines run happiest at about 1800rpm (7 knots), but I suspect it's still fitted with propellers more suited to a 2500-3000 rpm cruise (again, an assumption that this is where Holden sixes would be happy). I haven't really put much thought into gearbox's and would like, if practical, to keep the current ones and change the propellers so the new engines would also be able to cruise at <2000rpm.
From: jackbadger56 on 24 Feb 2007 20:17
On Feb 23, 6:12 pm, "Blue Heeler" <w...(a)bark.net> wrote: > John McKenzie wrote: > > fitting a car engine to a boat. > > Used to be a time honoured tradition - lots of Austin/Morris engines > had "marinising" kits available, and Vauxhaul side valve engines were > sold (with a few mods dealt with below) for years after they were no > longer fitted to cars. > > Likewise Mercury has had car sourced 6 and 8 cyl engines in it's > "inboard" powerpacks in the past. > > What do you need? > > Depending on the engine (how much alloy is in the cooling circuit) > decided whether you use a closed circuit fresh water cooling system > with some sort of intercoolign arrangement, or just pump raw seawater > through it (perfectly safe with cast iron engines with cast iron water > pumps). I was thinking of using heat exchangers, which I'm guessing (doing a lot of that, which is why I thought I'd post this) is an arrangement where a sea water cooler cools a sealed freshwater system. > > Next you need to make arrangements for getting oil out, a standpipe one > the side of the sump out of which you can suck the engine oil will > suffice, otherwise you get to let it all go into the bilge. Something I hadn't considered..... > > Water cooled exhaust manifold, these keep your exhaust temps down, and > also provide a ready source of hot water for distribution to internal > services like galleys and heads. Another aspect I haven't even considered! Are the manifolds cooled in their car applications? > > Modified flywheels to adapt to standard clutches etc for gear boxes. > > Modified carb as the engine may well see attitudes it was never > intended to see in a car. > > Ignition - the traiditon way was to fit a magneto, but this is probably > no longer necessery given that other forms of electronic ignition are > now more reliable. > > anythgn else anyone? > > -- |