From: George on
'99 Cavalier 2.2L.

Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
required to pull the head.

But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
and look at cars to buy.

So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)

2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that
cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is
now?

Or any other thoughts.

Thank you,
George
From: aarcuda69062 on
In article <pdk7r5polrvc1o1dmhl4eku9r6n669ktu8(a)4ax.com>,
George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote:

> '99 Cavalier 2.2L.
>
> Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
> responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
> given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
> required to pull the head.
>
> But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
> and look at cars to buy.
>
> So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
> bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
> arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
> sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)

Yes, no, maybe...

There is no realistic way to predict what will happen when a known
failed component is allowed to operate in a failed state.

> 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that
> cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is
> now?

Two things will happen for sure;
1) The camshaft will kick the lifters out of their bore, oil pressure
will drop and odds are, the engine will fail rapidly.
2) The fuel injector will continue to deliver fuel to that cylinder,
eventually enough fuel will accumulate that the cylinder will hydrolock,
the fuel will wash the oil from the rings/cylinder bore and the engine
will suffer more catastrophic failure.
From: George on
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:23:22 -0500, aarcuda69062
<nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>In article <pdk7r5polrvc1o1dmhl4eku9r6n669ktu8(a)4ax.com>,
> George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> '99 Cavalier 2.2L.
>>
>> Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
>> responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
>> given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
>> required to pull the head.
>>
>> But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
>> and look at cars to buy.
>>
>> So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
>> bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
>> arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
>> sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)
>
>Yes, no, maybe...
>
>There is no realistic way to predict what will happen when a known
>failed component is allowed to operate in a failed state.
>
>> 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that
>> cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is
>> now?
>
>Two things will happen for sure;
>1) The camshaft will kick the lifters out of their bore, oil pressure
>will drop and odds are, the engine will fail rapidly.
>2) The fuel injector will continue to deliver fuel to that cylinder,
>eventually enough fuel will accumulate that the cylinder will hydrolock,
>the fuel will wash the oil from the rings/cylinder bore and the engine
>will suffer more catastrophic failure.

Well, (I thought) it kind of goes without saying that you'd unplug the
injector. And remove the push rods, though I didn't say that, either.

WRT the lifters being blown out, I was kind of thinking/hoping that the
'anti-rotation brackets' might retain them. I'd only seen a sketch of
these, so I don't know. However, the service manual says to remove the
bracket in order to replace the lifter.

G
From: Steve W. on
George wrote:
> '99 Cavalier 2.2L.
>
> Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
> responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
> given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
> required to pull the head.
>
> But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
> and look at cars to buy.
>
> So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
> bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
> arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
> sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)
>
> 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that
> cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is
> now?
>
> Or any other thoughts.
>
> Thank you,
> George

Sounds like the valve inside the lifter has likely failed.

That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support
boss to the head correct?

Not really sure of a fix for that other than a new lifter. You could try
a couple things, One would be to find a speed shop that has some lash
caps, these are caps that get put on the valve stem tips for various
reasons (stem material soft, roller tipped rockers, wear caps)

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_189&osCsid=f93010f24b785d984
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Lash-Caps/?keyword=Manley+Valves

The other would be to weld up the tip of the rocker arm that hits the
valve and grind it back to fit. Just make sure you polish it smooth.

Or a combination of the two.

Another way that might work would be to see if anyone makes an
adjustable pushrod that would fit in there. A few makes used them.

Pulling the rockers is a bad ides. The lifters need to stay in a certain
position in the bore to regulate oil flow in the engine. Without the
valve springs holding them down they can come out of the bore enough to
wipe out the oil pressure.

--
Steve W.
From: George on
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 01:38:44 -0400, "Steve W." <csr684(a)NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:

>George wrote:
>> '99 Cavalier 2.2L.
>>
>> Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't
>> responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this,
>> given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc
>> required to pull the head.
>>
>> But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around
>> and look at cars to buy.
>>
>> So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the
>> bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker
>> arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening
>> sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.)
>>
>> 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that
>> cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is
>> now?
>>
>> Or any other thoughts.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> George
>
>Sounds like the valve inside the lifter has likely failed.
>
>That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support
>boss to the head correct?

Yes

>Not really sure of a fix for that other than a new lifter. You could try
>a couple things, One would be to find a speed shop that has some lash
>caps, these are caps that get put on the valve stem tips for various
>reasons (stem material soft, roller tipped rockers, wear caps)
>
>http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_189&osCsid=f93010f24b785d984
>http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Lash-Caps/?keyword=Manley+Valves
>
>The other would be to weld up the tip of the rocker arm that hits the
>valve and grind it back to fit. Just make sure you polish it smooth.
>
>Or a combination of the two.
>
>Another way that might work would be to see if anyone makes an
>adjustable pushrod that would fit in there. A few makes used them.
>
>Pulling the rockers is a bad ides. The lifters need to stay in a certain
>position in the bore to regulate oil flow in the engine. Without the
>valve springs holding them down they can come out of the bore enough to
>wipe out the oil pressure.

Thanks. That was very helpful.

George