From: George on 31 Mar 2010 19:04 '99 Cavalier 2.2L. Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this, given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc required to pull the head. But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around and look at cars to buy. So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.) 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is now? Or any other thoughts. Thank you, George
From: aarcuda69062 on 31 Mar 2010 20:23 In article <pdk7r5polrvc1o1dmhl4eku9r6n669ktu8(a)4ax.com>, George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote: > '99 Cavalier 2.2L. > > Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't > responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this, > given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc > required to pull the head. > > But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around > and look at cars to buy. > > So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the > bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker > arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening > sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.) Yes, no, maybe... There is no realistic way to predict what will happen when a known failed component is allowed to operate in a failed state. > 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that > cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is > now? Two things will happen for sure; 1) The camshaft will kick the lifters out of their bore, oil pressure will drop and odds are, the engine will fail rapidly. 2) The fuel injector will continue to deliver fuel to that cylinder, eventually enough fuel will accumulate that the cylinder will hydrolock, the fuel will wash the oil from the rings/cylinder bore and the engine will suffer more catastrophic failure.
From: George on 31 Mar 2010 20:57 On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:23:22 -0500, aarcuda69062 <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: >In article <pdk7r5polrvc1o1dmhl4eku9r6n669ktu8(a)4ax.com>, > George <gbeccles(a)verizon.net> wrote: > >> '99 Cavalier 2.2L. >> >> Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't >> responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this, >> given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc >> required to pull the head. >> >> But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around >> and look at cars to buy. >> >> So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the >> bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker >> arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening >> sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.) > >Yes, no, maybe... > >There is no realistic way to predict what will happen when a known >failed component is allowed to operate in a failed state. > >> 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that >> cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is >> now? > >Two things will happen for sure; >1) The camshaft will kick the lifters out of their bore, oil pressure >will drop and odds are, the engine will fail rapidly. >2) The fuel injector will continue to deliver fuel to that cylinder, >eventually enough fuel will accumulate that the cylinder will hydrolock, >the fuel will wash the oil from the rings/cylinder bore and the engine >will suffer more catastrophic failure. Well, (I thought) it kind of goes without saying that you'd unplug the injector. And remove the push rods, though I didn't say that, either. WRT the lifters being blown out, I was kind of thinking/hoping that the 'anti-rotation brackets' might retain them. I'd only seen a sketch of these, so I don't know. However, the service manual says to remove the bracket in order to replace the lifter. G
From: Steve W. on 1 Apr 2010 01:38 George wrote: > '99 Cavalier 2.2L. > > Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't > responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this, > given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc > required to pull the head. > > But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around > and look at cars to buy. > > So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the > bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker > arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening > sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.) > > 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that > cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is > now? > > Or any other thoughts. > > Thank you, > George Sounds like the valve inside the lifter has likely failed. That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support boss to the head correct? Not really sure of a fix for that other than a new lifter. You could try a couple things, One would be to find a speed shop that has some lash caps, these are caps that get put on the valve stem tips for various reasons (stem material soft, roller tipped rockers, wear caps) http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_189&osCsid=f93010f24b785d984 http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Lash-Caps/?keyword=Manley+Valves The other would be to weld up the tip of the rocker arm that hits the valve and grind it back to fit. Just make sure you polish it smooth. Or a combination of the two. Another way that might work would be to see if anyone makes an adjustable pushrod that would fit in there. A few makes used them. Pulling the rockers is a bad ides. The lifters need to stay in a certain position in the bore to regulate oil flow in the engine. Without the valve springs holding them down they can come out of the bore enough to wipe out the oil pressure. -- Steve W.
From: George on 1 Apr 2010 12:06
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 01:38:44 -0400, "Steve W." <csr684(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote: >George wrote: >> '99 Cavalier 2.2L. >> >> Per an earlier post, I have what seems to be a bad lifter. It hasn't >> responded to my theraputic efforts. We've decided not to repair this, >> given the general condition of the car and the cost of gaskets, etc >> required to pull the head. >> >> But, we need a car in the meantime - among other things, to go around >> and look at cars to buy. >> >> So, my question is, can we 'reasonably' continue to drive this, with the >> bad lifter? It's an exaust valve. There's a lot of play in the rocker >> arm - near 1/8", by my measure. With so much play, is the valve opening >> sufficiently, even? (It doesn't seem to affect performance, AFAICT.) >> >> 2nd question: could it be driven if I removed both rocker arms from that >> cylinder? Would this be less (more?) damaging that driving as it is >> now? >> >> Or any other thoughts. >> >> Thank you, >> George > >Sounds like the valve inside the lifter has likely failed. > >That engine has the rockers with the bolt going down through the support >boss to the head correct? Yes >Not really sure of a fix for that other than a new lifter. You could try >a couple things, One would be to find a speed shop that has some lash >caps, these are caps that get put on the valve stem tips for various >reasons (stem material soft, roller tipped rockers, wear caps) > >http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=6_189&osCsid=f93010f24b785d984 >http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Lash-Caps/?keyword=Manley+Valves > >The other would be to weld up the tip of the rocker arm that hits the >valve and grind it back to fit. Just make sure you polish it smooth. > >Or a combination of the two. > >Another way that might work would be to see if anyone makes an >adjustable pushrod that would fit in there. A few makes used them. > >Pulling the rockers is a bad ides. The lifters need to stay in a certain >position in the bore to regulate oil flow in the engine. Without the >valve springs holding them down they can come out of the bore enough to >wipe out the oil pressure. Thanks. That was very helpful. George |