electronic throttle
in [Technical]
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From: AMuzi on 13 Mar 2010 17:03 >>>>>> But, ABS does not >>>>>> work so well in the very wet or icy conditions. >>>>> Sure it does. It can't perform miracles, however. >>> David Skelton wrote: >>>> No, it doesn't work so well in slippery conditions. >> "dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote >>> I'd love to see you prove that statement. It's a fact beyond dispute >>> that it aids stability and control... >>> David Skelton wrote: >>>> In slippery conditions, it is much easier to lock all four wheels at once >>>> with a stomp on the brake pedal. Then the ABS controller cannot detect >>>> wheels turning at different speeds which is required to activate the ABS >>>> system. >> "dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote >>> A) Does that really work? B) Why the HELL would you want to do that? > "David Skelton" <skellyd8758(a)NOSPAMsky.com> wrote: >> A) I've done it. Locked up all four, went sideways, released the foot brake >> and steered into the slide, went the other way. We do not get much snow >> here, nor ice, usually... >> I have commented before about the (IMO) ridiculous width of tyres BMW put on >> their cars. >> B) If some half blind deaf twerp steps out in front of your car, then it is >> natural to try to stop quickly, isn't it ??? >> The day I got my first car (it was older than me), there was 3 inches of >> snow on the ground. I had only had 13 driving lessons before passing the >> test two weeks before (second attempt) so I did not have a lot of experience >> on 4 wheels. I had a LOT of fun that night. But that was in the early 80's. >> I'm more cautious now, and the cars cost a LOT more. ;-) >> Another time, I was in a old car without ABS, I realised that because I was >> not slowing after applying the brakes (all wheels locked), I was actually >> pushing the pedal harder. Luckily, I became aware of what was happening and >> released the pedal. >> Maybe there should be " skidpan training" for all learners. >> I personally think that all car drivers should spend a year or two on >> motorcycles before driving a car to become more aware of surface condition >> changes, and how that affects grip. clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > Better than half would never make it to the car. Yes. Making that an excellent suggestion. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
From: Nate Nagel on 13 Mar 2010 18:03 On 03/13/2010 05:03 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>> But, ABS does not >>>>>>> work so well in the very wet or icy conditions. >>>>>> Sure it does. It can't perform miracles, however. > >>>> David Skelton wrote: >>>>> No, it doesn't work so well in slippery conditions. > >>> "dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote >>>> I'd love to see you prove that statement. It's a fact beyond dispute >>>> that it aids stability and control... > >>>> David Skelton wrote: >>>>> In slippery conditions, it is much easier to lock all four wheels >>>>> at once >>>>> with a stomp on the brake pedal. Then the ABS controller cannot detect >>>>> wheels turning at different speeds which is required to activate >>>>> the ABS >>>>> system. > >>> "dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote >>>> A) Does that really work? B) Why the HELL would you want to do that? > >> "David Skelton" <skellyd8758(a)NOSPAMsky.com> wrote: >>> A) I've done it. Locked up all four, went sideways, released the foot >>> brake and steered into the slide, went the other way. We do not get >>> much snow here, nor ice, usually... >>> I have commented before about the (IMO) ridiculous width of tyres BMW >>> put on their cars. >>> B) If some half blind deaf twerp steps out in front of your car, then >>> it is natural to try to stop quickly, isn't it ??? >>> The day I got my first car (it was older than me), there was 3 inches >>> of snow on the ground. I had only had 13 driving lessons before >>> passing the test two weeks before (second attempt) so I did not have >>> a lot of experience on 4 wheels. I had a LOT of fun that night. But >>> that was in the early 80's. I'm more cautious now, and the cars cost >>> a LOT more. ;-) >>> Another time, I was in a old car without ABS, I realised that because >>> I was not slowing after applying the brakes (all wheels locked), I >>> was actually pushing the pedal harder. Luckily, I became aware of >>> what was happening and released the pedal. >>> Maybe there should be " skidpan training" for all learners. >>> I personally think that all car drivers should spend a year or two on >>> motorcycles before driving a car to become more aware of surface >>> condition changes, and how that affects grip. > > > clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >> Better than half would never make it to the car. > > Yes. Making that an excellent suggestion. > yeah, I'm in as well. Although I have to admit, I do not have a motorcycle endorsement - my parents wouldn't let me have one, and I didn't have a good enough friend nearby :/ Would have been so much easier to get it when I was in high school rather than now... maybe I should put that on my "things to do list" this year. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: clare on 13 Mar 2010 18:38 On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:03:18 -0500, Nate Nagel <njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote: >On 03/13/2010 05:03 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>> But, ABS does not >>>>>>>> work so well in the very wet or icy conditions. >>>>>>> Sure it does. It can't perform miracles, however. >> >>>>> David Skelton wrote: >>>>>> No, it doesn't work so well in slippery conditions. >> >>>> "dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote >>>>> I'd love to see you prove that statement. It's a fact beyond dispute >>>>> that it aids stability and control... >> >>>>> David Skelton wrote: >>>>>> In slippery conditions, it is much easier to lock all four wheels >>>>>> at once >>>>>> with a stomp on the brake pedal. Then the ABS controller cannot detect >>>>>> wheels turning at different speeds which is required to activate >>>>>> the ABS >>>>>> system. >> >>>> "dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote >>>>> A) Does that really work? B) Why the HELL would you want to do that? >> >>> "David Skelton" <skellyd8758(a)NOSPAMsky.com> wrote: >>>> A) I've done it. Locked up all four, went sideways, released the foot >>>> brake and steered into the slide, went the other way. We do not get >>>> much snow here, nor ice, usually... >>>> I have commented before about the (IMO) ridiculous width of tyres BMW >>>> put on their cars. >>>> B) If some half blind deaf twerp steps out in front of your car, then >>>> it is natural to try to stop quickly, isn't it ??? >>>> The day I got my first car (it was older than me), there was 3 inches >>>> of snow on the ground. I had only had 13 driving lessons before >>>> passing the test two weeks before (second attempt) so I did not have >>>> a lot of experience on 4 wheels. I had a LOT of fun that night. But >>>> that was in the early 80's. I'm more cautious now, and the cars cost >>>> a LOT more. ;-) >>>> Another time, I was in a old car without ABS, I realised that because >>>> I was not slowing after applying the brakes (all wheels locked), I >>>> was actually pushing the pedal harder. Luckily, I became aware of >>>> what was happening and released the pedal. >>>> Maybe there should be " skidpan training" for all learners. >>>> I personally think that all car drivers should spend a year or two on >>>> motorcycles before driving a car to become more aware of surface >>>> condition changes, and how that affects grip. >> >> >> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >>> Better than half would never make it to the car. >> >> Yes. Making that an excellent suggestion. >> > >yeah, I'm in as well. > >Although I have to admit, I do not have a motorcycle endorsement - my >parents wouldn't let me have one, and I didn't have a good enough friend >nearby :/ Would have been so much easier to get it when I was in high >school rather than now... maybe I should put that on my "things to do >list" this year. > >nate I've had mine for 42 years.
From: clare on 13 Mar 2010 23:03 I've recieved more "first hand " information on the sticky throttle situation with Toyota from a mechanic I know well and trust who has run across the problem since well before the recall, on several vehicles, including the Nissan Altima and Toyotas. He told the local Toyota dealer a year and a half ago that they would be seeing a massive recall in the near future. The problem HE has run into, and that he now checks for on ANY car with drive-by-wire at EVERY service is roughness in the operation of the throttle control motor. They are not well sealed against moisture, and when water gets in there are parts that rust. He says you can feel a roughness in the operation by having someone press the accellerator pedal with the key turned on and not running and simply putting your fingers on the throttle control motor. Anything other than a perfectly smooth operation will be quite obvious. He has replaced numerous units on vehicles owned and driven by people (mostly salesmen) who put a lot of miles on their cars - 2 year old cars with over 100,000 on the clock - off warrranty by mileage. When he finds one that appears rough under warranty he marks it on the workorder and tells the owner to take it to the dealer for replacement and to be sure it is written up on a workorder to document the diagnosis and complaint if it is not replaced. On the ones he has replaced the problem occurs when the driver goes to pass someone and opens the throttle more than the normal amount. On some cars when it happens the engine goes to fuel cut to limit power -but apparently on some it does not. NOT an electronic problem so much as an electromechanical problem in this case. I'm not saying this is the ONLY problem - but it IS happening - and not just on Toyotas. Altima and Infinity are two other makes/models he mentioned having the problem.
From: Daniel who wants to know on 14 Mar 2010 21:04
"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:ut2dncXMgrlAYQXWnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > On 03/10/2010 10:45 PM, DC wrote: > > interesting. but at >10x the price of a simple potentiometer solution, > which is afterall, also known to be highly reliable, would an auto > manufacturer really use one? > > -- > nomina rutrum rutrum Yes they would. If you want to know why just google Prius big hand syndrome. It happened because the NHW11 (2001-2003) used a dual potentiometer assembly and one or both pots got noisy. See: http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/DAS_Accel_pedal_renovation.pdf BHS didn't get much press coverage IMO because the failure caused the car to lose power not go out of control hence it wasn't newsworthy. |