From: jim on

N8N wrote:
> On May 23, 10:44 am, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m(a)mwt,net> wrote:
> >
> > Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to be changing the oil more
> > frequently all along? It is a sign of terminal stupidity to do extended
> > oil changes and then at 250,000 Km do a bunch of oil changes to make up
> > for it.
> You'd have a valid, albeit snarky, point if you assume that the OP
> had bought his car new. I certainly have bought at least one used car
> that was horribly sludged up inside because it was an otherwise nice
> car and the price was right. (and then there were a few that I just
> never looked to closely into the filler hole)

The point is the same even if he just bought the car. I figured it was
likely the OP was cleaning up somebody else's stupidity - somebody like
the person i directed my reply to.

> nate
From: cuhulin on
Back in the 1960's, I put a quart of engine cleaner stuff (I bought it
at a auto parts store) in the oil of the vehicle I owned at the time, I
don't remember which vehicle it was.I followed the directions on the
can.When I changed the oil and oil filter, I didn't notice any big
difference at all as far as removing extra gunk is concerned.Maybe the
engine was already clean enough anyway.

From: jim on

Bob Flumere wrote:

> Well said Nate..
> but..
> My only argument with this still stands assuming (and only if) the
> engine is quiet, running well and not smoking, the sludge is better
> left alone and simply changing the oil and filter at a more frequent
> interval for a few changes is the safest alternative to the chance of
> creating a problem that will surely terminate the life of the engine.
> Disolving and putting a large quantity of engine deposits into
> circulation will surely block the oil pump pickup screen resulting in
> catastrophic crank and bearing failure. Not worth the chance IMHO.

This is what you imagine will happen to the OP's engine. If the OP puts
kerosene or diesel in the crankcase and idles the engine for 15 minutes,
he isn't going to dissolve any more of the deposits than if he changed
the oil and ran it for hundreds of miles. The only difference is that he
will get rid of that much of the dirt in 15 minutes instead of cycling
it thru the engine for 100's of miles.

Your imagination leads you to believe that kerosene or diesel is a lot
more aggressive at dissolving sludge that it really is.

If you actually had any experience doing this you would know that those
sludge deposits are not going to just suddenly dissolve. To get the
engine cleaned out is still going to take a series of more frequent oil
changes. If his efforts succeeds in getting one oil change worth of
sludge removed from the engine he can consider himself lucky.
I've seen the inside of a valve cover on a engine that was packed with
sludge. The guy who owned it was looking for a quick fix so he put the
cover back on and flushed it with kerosene. Then he opened it up again
and to his dismay all the sludge was still there. For the most part all
it had done was make the sludge look more shiny. Although you could see
a couple places where it had cut small grooves in the sludge.

The Op already cleaned out the oil pan and if the contents were like
vegemite as he said, then he probably saw some of it was already on the
oil pick up screen. The pick up screen and the oil passages are the sort
places where the oil flows rapidly and where a solvent like diesel is
going to be able to eat thru some of the sludge due to the aggressive
flow. The places where the oil flows more leisurely and where the sludge
is heavily built up it isn't going to do much of anything.


> ATF flushes at high mileage are another whole (much different) issue
> but still can be a gamble if the fluid has deteriorated. Damned if
> you do and damned if you don't so to speak. <G>
> You do what you think is best and see what results. With a trans, it
> can surely increase the life. Of course you are much more likely to
> pull and clean the trans pan and change the filter when doing a tranny
> flush!
> The factors in using an agressive solvent to clean a sludgy engine are
> much different than those in a tranny. (Much more more dangerous in my
> opinion if you don't drop and clean the oil pan and oil pump pickup
> screen after using the solvent).
> Changing fluid, (engine, trans, rear end, brake etc.) is a lot more
> benign than attempting to clean up a mess caused by lack of
> maintanance with an aggresive solvent, diesel, or other commercial
> flush.. The liability in doing this was so great, that most
> commercial manufacturers of really agressive engine "flush" products
> ceased to sell them. Those remaining on the market are really not
> very strong (or effective) solvents for this reason.
> Bob
> rflumere(a)
From: hls on

"jim" <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m(a)mwt,net> wrote in message

> Your imagination leads you to believe that kerosene or diesel is a lot
> more aggressive at dissolving sludge that it really is.

Diesel or kerosene is NOT an aggressive solvent...Thank God. It will
help wash the slush out of an engine.. It will not remove varnish very
quickly if at all. Kerosene, at any rate, does not swell or eat up your
rubber seals, packing, etc.

Wash the damn engine block out, change oil and filters, and go on.

You can change oil more frequently after this, use additives, etc to
help remove the varnish with time.

This is not rocket science either. There are a lot of opinions abounding
here, some totally off course, others rather correct.

If you havent seen it personally, dont recommend it...If you HAVE seen
it, be sure you are correct about what you have observed.

From: cuhulin on
Vegivitamin? ~ Lucille Ball, old I Love Lucy tv show.