From: nm5k on
On Apr 1, 1:56 pm, Michael <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 29, 5:41 pm, jim beam <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc...
>
> > shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations!
>
> > --
> > nomina rutrum rutrum
>
> Interesting point:  "The HE filters used in this study claimed
> filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard
> filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that
> motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles
> which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have
> not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in
> motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a
> result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor
> oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor
> oil life to its full potential."

The smaller the particle the filter traps, the quicker it is going to
clog up.
Also, until you get to a point of saturation, the size of the
particles missed
by a "standard" filter are not large enough to do much engine wear.
I'm fairly anal about my vehicle, but I don't use filters that trap
very fine
particles. I use regular old standard filters. They are less prone to
being
clogged. And if that happens the bypass kicks in and you have no
filtering at all.

>
> This raises the question:  would it be safe to keep engine oil for
> 10,000 miles if you replace JUST the oil filter every 5,000 miles?

It would depend on the service. If it's all highway miles, maybe..
If not, pretty risky.. :(

>
> Is an HE filter necessary?  Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2
> filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice.

I think it's a waste of money, and also not the greatest idea as I
have already touched on.

>
> Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles).  For my
> wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain...

If your Camry has 176k miles on it, you are probably doing something
right. Why change? :/

Myself, I use regular standard filters, half decent oil, "castrol
syntec blend",
and I change it every 5k miles like the manual and the blinky light
on
the dashboard says. I'm not a fan of "extended oil change skeds".
The purpose of changing the oil and filter is to remove the dirt,
acids,
moisture, and whatever else, and to replenish the additives in the
oil.
I'm not going much past 5k in any of my vehicles, and I don't care
what anyone thinks about it. My older trucks actually get dirtier
after 5k miles than my newer Corolla. It's so clean burning it is
really
not that bad after 5k.. But I change it anyway. Cheap insurance.
I don't use synth blend in the trucks though.. Just regular dino oil..
I only use the synth blend in the Corolla as extra insurance against
the dreaded gelling problem. Again, the extra cost is cheap insurance
the way I see it.








From: Michael on
On Apr 1, 3:06 pm, n...(a)wt.net wrote:
> On Apr 1, 1:56 pm, Michael <mrdarr...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 29, 5:41 pm, jim beam <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc....
>
> > > shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations!
>
> > > --
> > > nomina rutrum rutrum
>
> > Interesting point:  "The HE filters used in this study claimed
> > filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard
> > filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that
> > motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles
> > which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have
> > not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in
> > motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a
> > result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor
> > oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor
> > oil life to its full potential."
>
> The smaller the particle the filter traps, the quicker it is going to
> clog up.
> Also, until you get to a point of saturation, the size of the
> particles missed
> by a "standard" filter are not large enough to do much engine wear.
> I'm fairly anal about my vehicle, but I don't use filters that trap
> very fine
> particles. I use regular old standard filters. They are less prone to
> being
> clogged. And if that happens the bypass kicks in and you have no
> filtering at all.
>
>
>
> > This raises the question:  would it be safe to keep engine oil for
> > 10,000 miles if you replace JUST the oil filter every 5,000 miles?
>
> It would depend on the service. If it's all highway miles, maybe..
> If not, pretty risky..  :(
>
>
>
> > Is an HE filter necessary?  Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2
> > filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice.
>
> I think it's a waste of money, and also not the greatest idea as I
> have already touched on.
>
>
>
> > Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles).  For my
> > wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain...
>
> If your Camry has 176k miles on it, you are probably doing something
> right. Why change?   :/
>
> Myself, I use regular standard filters, half decent oil, "castrol
> syntec blend",
> and I change it every 5k miles like the manual and the blinky light
> on
> the dashboard says.  I'm not a fan of "extended oil change skeds".
> The purpose of changing the oil and filter is to remove the dirt,
> acids,
> moisture, and whatever else, and to replenish the additives in the
> oil.
> I'm not going much past 5k in any of my vehicles, and I don't care
> what anyone thinks about it. My older trucks actually get dirtier
> after 5k miles than my newer Corolla. It's so clean burning it is
> really
> not that bad after 5k.. But I change it anyway. Cheap insurance.
> I don't use synth blend in the trucks though.. Just regular dino oil..
> I only use the synth blend in the Corolla as extra insurance against
> the dreaded gelling problem. Again, the extra cost is cheap insurance
> the way I see it.



Ok, thanks for the info. Good points all around. Maybe the car can
go longer on multiple filters, but 5k miles is long enough. My use
might even qualify as "severe" come to think of it... mixed city/
highway driving.

Was using Castrol regular 10W-30, thinking of putting in regular Mobil
5W-30 for better fuel economy next change due in ~900 miles.

Thanks,

Michael
From: Tegger on
"Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in
news:hp2ok5$tj$1(a)news.eternal-september.org:

>
> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
>
>
>> Define "chemical".
>
> No desire to play your little agenda game. Defining 'chemical' will
> in no way lead to a greater depth of dicussion on why it is bad to
> needlessly expose yourself to harmful chemicals. Keep
> cleaning/disinfecting your home hourly if you believe that it
> won't/can't hurt you.
>
>



You said, "Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health problems."

You didn't say, "harmful chemicals", you said, "chemicals".

So...what's a "chemical"? Answer the question.


--
Tegger

From: Bob Jones on

"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:XdqdnRJTWIGpPCnWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...
> On 03/31/2010 05:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote:
>> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:ZbmdnZS5tr6ESy_WnZ2dnUVZ_tAAAAAA(a)speakeasy.net...
>>> On 03/30/2010 04:55 PM, Bob Jones wrote:
>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:3ebb0d52-9d5c-4fda-9d4c-e7d329ca1792(a)i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Mar 29, 6:41 pm, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficienc...
>>>>
>>>>> The article linked above is a good read and helps reinforce my belief
>>>>> about going with the manufacturer's recommendations on oil change
>>>>> intervals, or even longer.
>>>>
>>>>> The owner's manual for my 2003 Civic says to change the oil every 10k
>>>>> miles or every year, whichever comes first, using 5W20 non-synthetic,
>>>>> and assuming no extreme conditions, per what is explained to be
>>>>> "extreme" in the owner's manual.
>>>>
>>>>> The wikipedia entry for "motor oil" talks about how oil standards have
>>>>> changed, driving the increasing interval over the decades.
>>>>
>>>> That may be the case for normal driving condition. Most people drive in
>>>> severe conditions.
>>>
>>> nonsense - by definition, "normal" is what most people drive in.
>>>
>>
>> Severe conditions are defined
>
> defined by whom?
>

Look up Honda's manual.

>
>> as follows:
>>
>> - Driving less than 5 miles per trip or less than 10 miles per trip in
>> freezing temperatures.
>> - Driving in extreme hot (over 90F) conditions.
>> - Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving.
>> - Driving in muddy, dusty, de-iced, or mountain roads.
>
> i googled for those definitions, and guess what - they all came up on
> iffy-lube type websites selling you 3000 mile oil changes.
>
> bottom line - it's analysis that trumps all cant, sales, superstition or
> hysteria on this subject. if the analysis says you can run your oil
> longer, and per my original post, most people can, that's the end of the
> story.
>
>
>>
>> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying no?
>
> yes, i'm saying no. it's illogical nonsense.
>

We just have to disagree then.


From: Bob Jones on

"Elle" <honda.lioness(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2c7be1e4-0b10-40e6-a35b-92662fbfd8c6(a)k13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 6:33 pm, "Bob Jones" <em...(a)me.not> wrote:
>> Severe conditions are defined as follows:

>> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying no?

> I am saying "no," though it is conjecture like everyone else's. Honda
> itself says the normal schedule "is fine for most drivers."

I do not see this phrase in Honda's manual.

> From my
> 2003 Civic's manual:

> The "normal" schedule is fine for most drivers, even if they
> occasionally drive in severe conditions.

That's a big difference from just saying "is fine for most drivers."

> Follow the "severe" schedule only if you drive in one or more of these
> conditions /most of the time/" [emphasis is Honda's, not mine]:

> Trips of less than 5 miles (less than 10 in freezing weather)
> Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
> Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
> Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
> Muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads"

Which one is it? "Occasionally" or "most of the time"?