From: Bill Putney on
SMS wrote:

> Hmm, right now our vehicles are 14, 9, and 2 years old. All had oil
> changes that followed the manual. None ever had 3K changes of course
> since every expert in the field of automotive engines and lubrication
> agrees that there is absolutely no benefit to them...

I wouldn't consider them experts if they are unaware of some particular
engines that will absolutely sludge up with 5000+ mile change intervals.
It's one thing to say that *on* *most* vehicles and *under* *most*
*conditions*, 3000 mile oil change intervals are not necessary. But to
tell people that 3000 mile oil change intervals are a waste with no
qualification is gross malpractice - I would not consider a person
giving such advice an expert..

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
From: Bill Putney on
Dave Kelsen wrote:
> On 4/1/2010 9:30 PM clare(a)snyder.on.ca spake these words of knowledge:

>> And those of us who prefer to change the oil more often are villified
>> as liars and idiots by those who believe today's oils and engines are
>> SO VASTLY improved, in ALL ways, over the e ngines and oils of the
>> past.
>>
>> Yes, there have been major improvements - but the higher specific
>> output and smaller bearing surfaces for reduced friction - and
>> therefor better fuel mileage - and numerous other design changes,
>> combined with the addition of Ethanol and other chemicals to the fuel
>> and the mandated removal of Zinc based extreme pressure
>> additives from the oil have ALL conspired to make the job of t he
>> engine oil more severe.
>
> True enough - but while the actions on your part are indeed a
> preference, the folks who talk about the improvements to engines and
> oils have something more than a belief. They have scientifically
> conducted experiments. They have proof that they are right.

Their proof did not consider that the oil change would only be billed
and not actually done - but that is a different problem. It also
ignores certain engines that are less tolerant of the longer change
intervals.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
From: E. Meyer on
On 4/1/10 2:36 PM, in article
2c7be1e4-0b10-40e6-a35b-92662fbfd8c6(a)k13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, "Elle"
<honda.lioness(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mar 31, 6:33�pm, "Bob Jones" <em...(a)me.not> wrote:
>> Severe conditions are defined as follows:
>
>> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying no?
>
> I am saying "no," though it is conjecture like everyone else's. Honda
> itself says the normal schedule "is fine for most drivers." From my
> 2003 Civic's manual:
> ---
> The "normal" schedule is fine for most drivers, even if they
> occasionally drive in severe conditions.
>
> Follow the "severe" schedule only if you drive in one or more of these
> conditions /most of the time/" [emphasis is Honda's, not mine]:
>
> Trips of less than 5 miles (less than 10 in freezing weather)
> Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
> Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
> Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
> Muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads"
> ---
>
> In addition, I think oil change analyses will support the claim that
> most folks' Hondas are not driven under severe conditions. The
> original study that Jim B cited proposes a 10k mile change interval
> for passenger cars. Look at the study itself, and one will see 40
> passenger cars, used as a fleet by the California Department of
> General Services, were examined. Again, it is only conjecture, but
> ISTM that such fleet cars would see much stop and go driving. Consumer
> Reports found similar for NYC taxis in 1996:
> http://www.moneybluebook.com/articles/consumerreports.oilchange.php .

Here in Texas, the temp goes above 90 sometime in May and stays there until
October. That pretty much kills normal schedule here, at least in the
summer.

I think its interesting that Honda puts in the 90 degree clause, where
Nissan focuses on dust and freezing temps, and only talks about hot in terms
of stop-and-go driving in hot weather.

From: ACAR on
On Apr 1, 11:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" <e...(a)snetnospam.net> wrote:
snip
>  I don't
> know of anyone that has had an oil related problems on a car built in the
> past 20 years.  

My independent mechanic claims he sees many BMWs with oil-related
excessive wear issues. The BMW owners who change their oil more
frequently than 15K miles do not see the same issues. Or so he claims.
But he does

Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well
publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited
by anyone who changed their own oil.




From: ACAR on
On Apr 2, 10:47 am, ACAR <dimndsonmywnds...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 11:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" <e...(a)snetnospam.net> wrote:
> snip
>
> >  I don't
> > know of anyone that has had an oil related problems on a car built in the
> > past 20 years.  
>
> My independent mechanic claims he sees many BMWs with oil-related
> excessive wear issues. The BMW owners who change their oil more
> frequently than 15K miles do not see the same issues. Or so he claims.
> But he does quite a lot of BMW business and has been doing so for over 10 years.
>
> Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well
> publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited
> by anyone who changed their own oil.