From: Dave Kelsen on 2 Apr 2010 12:16 On 4/2/2010 6:54 AM Observer spake these words of knowledge: > On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 06:37:40 -0700, jim beam <me(a)privacy.net> wrote: > >>On 04/01/2010 04:38 AM, Observer wrote: >>> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:41:36 -0700, jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil-Filters.cfm >>>> >>>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations! >>> >>> >>> I'm one of those guys who believes in 3000 mile intervals because it >>> has always worked for me. >> >>i keep garlic in my refrigerator because it stops elephants from >>standing in the butter. because it has always worked for me. >> >> > > > As I said, if it works for you, do it. Does it matter what others > think? Exactly right. Does it matter to you, OP, that you could save time and money by doing it less often, without affecting how well it 'works for you'? If not, go for it. It's all in what matters to you. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen -- A good submissive is hard to beat.
From: SMS on 2 Apr 2010 12:20 On 01/04/10 7:30 PM, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > And those of us who prefer to change the oil more often are villified > as liars and idiots Not liars. Not even idiots. Just clueless.
From: Bill Putney on 2 Apr 2010 12:52 ACAR wrote: > Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well > publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited > by anyone who changed their own oil. Which may hark back to what I was saying about oil change places and some dealers charging for an oil/filter change and not really doing it. -- Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
From: Bill Putney on 2 Apr 2010 12:57 clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:18:04 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net> > wrote: > >> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >> >>> I also see a lot of cars blowing blue smoke - ring or valve-guide >>> failure CAN be oil related failures... >> On that same 2.7, it's not the valve guides per-se - it's the valve stem >> seals that get hard and brittle typically at 105 to 125k miles. I >> replaced mine along with timing chain, water pump, and oil pump (they >> increased the capacity of the oil pump a year or so after mine was >> built) at 207k miles - didn't touch the heads other than the stem seals. >> No more smoke, no more oil usage (until probably 350k miles. >> >> The valve and springs are recessed down into the head, and the selas >> can't take the heat (even though they are viton). Not really an oil >> related failure, but sludge certainly would be. > I didn't specify the 2.7, or even Chrysler, as the smolers. > > Lots of Nissan Altimas, Hyundai Elantras, the odd Tercel, Chevy > Cavaliers etc thrown into the mix as well. I was just giving my experience as the owner of a 2.7 and reader of the various LH car forums. Wasn't trying to contradict your experience with other engines. -- Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
From: jim on 2 Apr 2010 13:02
Bill Putney wrote: > > SMS wrote: > > > Hmm, right now our vehicles are 14, 9, and 2 years old. All had oil > > changes that followed the manual. None ever had 3K changes of course > > since every expert in the field of automotive engines and lubrication > > agrees that there is absolutely no benefit to them... > > I wouldn't consider them experts if they are unaware of some particular > engines that will absolutely sludge up with 5000+ mile change intervals. No that isn't true. And that is the problem with most of the thinking on this subject - there are no absolutes. It is just like saying it is scientifically proven that smoking causes cancer. That isn't accurate. There may be a strong correlation but smoking does not absolutely guarantee you will get Cancer. Smoking only increases the risk. The same with those cars. An unacceptably large number of the cars may develop sludge with extended oil change intervals but many of them won't. Many manufacturers recommend that if you drive in high temps you should change oil more often. But that doesn't mean someone who lives in Death Valley and regularly drives when it is 110F can't get away with 10000 mile OCI. What it does mean is that the probability of the oil being exposed to high enough temps long enough to start to break down and lose viscosity and shear properties significantly increases in hot weather. But in a perfectly functioning automobile even at that high ambient temp the cooling capability of the engine should work and the oil shouldn't break down. But you can't say absolutely that is going to hold true for every car. The fact is even with 3000 mile OCI there is a possibility that some cars may suffer damage if the cooling system isn't up to snuff. The probability of a problem occurring increases with extended intervals. And it is not as if no car ever overheated in cool weather, but the probability and the severity of such an event go down with the temperature. > It's one thing to say that *on* *most* vehicles and *under* *most* > *conditions*, 3000 mile oil change intervals are not necessary. But to > tell people that 3000 mile oil change intervals are a waste with no > qualification is gross malpractice - I would not consider a person > giving such advice an expert.. That is right. Good advice should include the notion that there will be risk involved in everything. If you are dependent on someone else to do oil changes there is always the possibility that service provider may not actually do the work. The probability of surviving the oil not being changed without damage certainly goes up for those who take it in to be changed every 3000 miles compared top those who do at 10000 miles. The people who say they are reducing their risk by changing oil frequently are in fact correct. However they really have no way of knowing how much (or how little) they are reducing risk. There really are not much in the way of scientific research or statistical analysis on passenger car engines that looks at car engines much past 100000 miles. What if you are interested in keeping a car well past 100K miles? There is really very little to go on but private anecdotes. -jim |