From: Dave Kelsen on
On 4/2/2010 6:54 AM Observer spake these words of knowledge:

> On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 06:37:40 -0700, jim beam <me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>On 04/01/2010 04:38 AM, Observer wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:41:36 -0700, jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil-Filters.cfm
>>>>
>>>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations!
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm one of those guys who believes in 3000 mile intervals because it
>>> has always worked for me.
>>
>>i keep garlic in my refrigerator because it stops elephants from
>>standing in the butter. because it has always worked for me.
>>
>>
>
>
> As I said, if it works for you, do it. Does it matter what others
> think?

Exactly right. Does it matter to you, OP, that you could save time and
money by doing it less often, without affecting how well it 'works for
you'? If not, go for it.

It's all in what matters to you.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
A good submissive is hard to beat.
From: SMS on
On 01/04/10 7:30 PM, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:

> And those of us who prefer to change the oil more often are villified
> as liars and idiots

Not liars. Not even idiots. Just clueless.
From: Bill Putney on
ACAR wrote:

> Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well
> publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited
> by anyone who changed their own oil.

Which may hark back to what I was saying about oil change places and
some dealers charging for an oil/filter change and not really doing it.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
From: Bill Putney on
clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:18:04 -0400, Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net>
> wrote:
>
>> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>>> I also see a lot of cars blowing blue smoke - ring or valve-guide
>>> failure CAN be oil related failures...
>> On that same 2.7, it's not the valve guides per-se - it's the valve stem
>> seals that get hard and brittle typically at 105 to 125k miles. I
>> replaced mine along with timing chain, water pump, and oil pump (they
>> increased the capacity of the oil pump a year or so after mine was
>> built) at 207k miles - didn't touch the heads other than the stem seals.
>> No more smoke, no more oil usage (until probably 350k miles.
>>
>> The valve and springs are recessed down into the head, and the selas
>> can't take the heat (even though they are viton). Not really an oil
>> related failure, but sludge certainly would be.

> I didn't specify the 2.7, or even Chrysler, as the smolers.
>
> Lots of Nissan Altimas, Hyundai Elantras, the odd Tercel, Chevy
> Cavaliers etc thrown into the mix as well.

I was just giving my experience as the owner of a 2.7 and reader of the
various LH car forums. Wasn't trying to contradict your experience with
other engines.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
From: jim on


Bill Putney wrote:
>
> SMS wrote:
>
> > Hmm, right now our vehicles are 14, 9, and 2 years old. All had oil
> > changes that followed the manual. None ever had 3K changes of course
> > since every expert in the field of automotive engines and lubrication
> > agrees that there is absolutely no benefit to them...
>
> I wouldn't consider them experts if they are unaware of some particular
> engines that will absolutely sludge up with 5000+ mile change intervals.

No that isn't true. And that is the problem with most of the thinking on
this subject - there are no absolutes. It is just like saying it is
scientifically proven that smoking causes cancer. That isn't accurate.
There may be a strong correlation but smoking does not absolutely
guarantee you will get Cancer. Smoking only increases the risk. The same
with those cars. An unacceptably large number of the cars may develop
sludge with extended oil change intervals but many of them won't.
Many manufacturers recommend that if you drive in high temps you should
change oil more often. But that doesn't mean someone who lives in Death
Valley and regularly drives when it is 110F can't get away with 10000
mile OCI. What it does mean is that the probability of the oil being
exposed to high enough temps long enough to start to break down and lose
viscosity and shear properties significantly increases in hot weather.
But in a perfectly functioning automobile even at that high ambient temp
the cooling capability of the engine should work and the oil shouldn't
break down. But you can't say absolutely that is going to hold true for
every car.
The fact is even with 3000 mile OCI there is a possibility that some
cars may suffer damage if the cooling system isn't up to snuff. The
probability of a problem occurring increases with extended intervals.
And it is not as if no car ever overheated in cool weather, but the
probability and the severity of such an event go down with the
temperature.



> It's one thing to say that *on* *most* vehicles and *under* *most*
> *conditions*, 3000 mile oil change intervals are not necessary. But to
> tell people that 3000 mile oil change intervals are a waste with no
> qualification is gross malpractice - I would not consider a person
> giving such advice an expert..

That is right. Good advice should include the notion that there will be
risk involved in everything. If you are dependent on someone else to do
oil changes there is always the possibility that service provider may
not actually do the work. The probability of surviving the oil not being
changed without damage certainly goes up for those who take it in to be
changed every 3000 miles compared top those who do at 10000 miles.

The people who say they are reducing their risk by changing oil
frequently are in fact correct. However they really have no way of
knowing how much (or how little) they are reducing risk. There really
are not much in the way of scientific research or statistical analysis
on passenger car engines that looks at car engines much past 100000
miles. What if you are interested in keeping a car well past 100K miles?
There is really very little to go on but private anecdotes.

-jim