From: clare on
On 4 Apr 2010 12:01:13 -0400, kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>hls <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote:
>>
>>So you are trying to say that the problematic Toyotas would not have
>>sludged if they had been using synthetic oils? I doubt you have any
>>proof at all for that statement.
>
>Well, if the problem was caused by low flow and high temperatures causing
>oil breakdown, a synthetic oil with a higher breakdown temperature would
>seem to help.
>
>I had a Chrysler Laser which was notorious for turbocharger problems. The
>oil would bake in the turbocharger after the engine was turned off, and
>clog it up with varnish. I used mostly synthetic oil in the thing for
>years and never had a turbocharger problem.
>
>It all really depends on what was causing the sludging in the first place.
>If it was caused by blow-by, the best oil in the world wouldn't help. But
>if it was caused by varnishing, synthetics can help a lot.
>--scott
Actually, even if blowby was at the root of the problem (which it
wasn't on the Toyotas and 3.7 Mopars) synthetic oils do not oxidize as
easily - meaning the acids etc deposited by the blowby would not break
down the synthetic as fast.

Would it eliminate the problem? Doubtful - but it would definitely
REDUCE the problem -or delay it.
From: Bill Putney on
Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Well, if the problem was caused by low flow and high temperatures causing
> oil breakdown, a synthetic oil with a higher breakdown temperature would
> seem to help.
>
> I had a Chrysler Laser which was notorious for turbocharger problems. The
> oil would bake in the turbocharger after the engine was turned off, and
> clog it up with varnish. I used mostly synthetic oil in the thing for
> years and never had a turbocharger problem.

I don't disagree with you. I had an '86 Subaru turbo wagon that I used
conventional Castrol oil with 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil in the
crankcase for the last half of my ownership of it. I tried synthetic in
it when it had about 150k miles on it, but that didn't work out - had
valve clatter that was due to crankcase residues breaking loose and
interfering with proper lifter operation - at least, after lots of
experimenting and discussions, that's the only conclusion I could come
too that made consistent sense.

That's when I switched back to conventional oil and started adding the
MMO. Sold it running absolutely great on original engine and turbo unit
at 275k miles. The kid who bought it from me had to scrap it 6 mos.
later due to chassis rust (which I had already repaired once), but he
saved the engine and turbo for another body.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
From: Bill Putney on
clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Actually, even if blowby was at the root of the problem (which it
> wasn't on the Toyotas and 3.7 Mopars)...

I think you meant 2.7 Mopars there.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
From: hls on

<clare(a)snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> Actually, even if blowby was at the root of the problem (which it
> wasn't on the Toyotas and 3.7 Mopars) synthetic oils do not oxidize as
> easily - meaning the acids etc deposited by the blowby would not break
> down the synthetic as fast.
>
> Would it eliminate the problem? Doubtful - but it would definitely
> REDUCE the problem -or delay it.

Would they oxidize as easily, or not? Prove your point.
From: hls on

<clare(a)snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:r9ghr55t8btmimd0s9a1ki9q8n1t72tbnf(a)4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 08:05:22 -0500, "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>>
>>"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
>>news:Cq-dnaDhIbm58yrWnZ2dnUVZ_v4AAAAA(a)speakeasy.net...
>>> On 04/02/2010 07:47 AM, ACAR wrote:
>>> <snip for clarity>
>>>> Toyota's oil related sludge/gelling issues were pretty well
>>>> publicized. However, I think it is true that not one problem was cited
>>>> by anyone who changed their own oil.
>>>
>>> that statement is worth significant examination: "sludge", any engine,
>>> is
>>> an oil problem, not mechanical. if toyota had been sold a job lot of
>>> defective oil or if iffy-lube were being more ruthlessly inattentive
>>> than
>>> normal, that would indeed cause the problem.
>>>
>>
>>So you are trying to say that the problematic Toyotas would not have
>>sludged if they had been using synthetic oils? I doubt you have any
>>proof at all for that statement.
>>
> He is correct though - synthetic oils at the recommended interval did
> not sludge - nor dird regular oils at the severe duty schedule.
> That has been proven time and again.

Toyota, which does not have a recommendation for synthetics in my book,
claims that the problems were that the owners did not maintain their
vehicles
properly. There is evidence that there was more to it than that (PCV
system modifications).

I have seen no data with regard to synthetics in the problematic runs
of Toyotas. Have you actually SEEN the data, and can you cite your
source?