for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...
in [Technical]
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From: dr_jeff on 5 Apr 2010 07:38 Ed Pawlowski wrote: > > <clare(a)snyder.on.ca> wrote >> And they had a LOT of problem engines using the specified standard oil >> on the "normal" change schedule. The problem is obvious - the oil not >> being changed often enough for conditions. >> This is NOT to say there was not a problem with the engine design that >> made the operatring conditions for the oil more onerous than they >> needed to be. > > > Maybe some of the people following the "normal" schedule were actually > driving under the "sever" criteria. I wonder how many people actually > know what they should be following. What percent of people drive under "sever" criteria? 1%?
From: C. E. White on 5 Apr 2010 07:39 <clare(a)snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:t64cr5l91j7cd6tkded23ud1hcnte6gpg5(a)4ax.com... > Also at the Toyota dealer where I was service manager for 10 years. > According to the guys still working there. > Not a single coked up engine on a car maintained according to the > "severe" schedule. NOT ONE. Wasn't the severe schedule every 5000 miles? Ed
From: jim on 5 Apr 2010 08:53 jim beam wrote: > > On 04/04/2010 05:31 PM, jim wrote: > > > > > > Bob Jones wrote: > > > >>> based on oil analysis, i have this: > >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ > >>> > >> > >> Send it to Honda. May be they will rewrite the manual based on your > >> findings. > > > > Maybe the scored cam lobe in that picture will really impress Honda. > > wow, someone actually noticed!!! 10 points. > > that cam lobe got marked when i did the head gasket in a hurry and > didn't clean up - it was grit during reassembly and it's been that way > for 51k miles now. That is not fact it is simply the story you cooked up. Regardless of what may or may not have happened to your particular engine, it is not uncommon to see this sort of engine damage happen to someone who changes oil at 10000 miles and experiences a head gasket leak. Basically what happens is the sudden introduction of a small amount of antifreeze into the oil will overwhelm the additives in the oil that are designed to hold small particles of dirt in suspension. When these tiny particles that usually do no harm are no longer capable of being held in suspension, they will agglomerate into larger particles. That is, the tiny particles will be attracted to each other and form into larger masses. The damage those larger particles (before they reach the oil filter) can do looks exactly like the score marks on your cam. -jim >as you know if you have experience of this stuff, > for that surface with those same marks to persist this long, without > being scuffed off as normally happens, is a truly extraordinary > testament to a superior lubricant. > > google this group for a longer write-up i posted a while ago. > > -- > nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 5 Apr 2010 10:26 On 04/05/2010 05:53 AM, jim wrote: > > > jim beam wrote: >> >> On 04/04/2010 05:31 PM, jim wrote: >>> >>> >>> Bob Jones wrote: >>> >>>>> based on oil analysis, i have this: >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> Send it to Honda. May be they will rewrite the manual based on your >>>> findings. >>> >>> Maybe the scored cam lobe in that picture will really impress Honda. >> >> wow, someone actually noticed!!! 10 points. >> >> that cam lobe got marked when i did the head gasket in a hurry and >> didn't clean up - it was grit during reassembly and it's been that way >> for 51k miles now. > > > That is not fact it is simply the story you cooked up. sorry buddy, is is fact - i personally did the work that caused that marking, witnessed the condition of the cam before the work, witnessed the grit that was stuck on the cam lobes by oil film, and the condition immediately after start-up - which is just like you see now. i assembled the motor in spite of the fact that it was going to be damaged by the grit because i was in a hurry and was thinking i'd get rid of this motor anyway. all it had to do was last one weekend. whoops, does that expose your denial and ignorance? [rhetorical] > Regardless of > what may or may not have happened to your particular engine, it is not > uncommon to see this sort of engine damage happen to someone who > changes oil at 10000 miles and experiences a head gasket leak. more bullshit. cam lobes do wear and score, but you can't see this cam up close like i can, and the fine surface detail is completely different from simple wear and lubrication failure. > > Basically what happens is the sudden introduction of a small amount of > antifreeze into the oil will overwhelm the additives in the oil that are > designed to hold small particles of dirt in suspension. When these tiny > particles that usually do no harm are no longer capable of being held in > suspension, they will agglomerate into larger particles. That is, the > tiny particles will be attracted to each other and form into larger > masses. The damage those larger particles (before they reach the oil > filter) can do looks exactly like the score marks on your cam. bullshit. the reality is that if you have antifreeze in the coolant, [which mine never had btw, quite apart from the fact that the cam was not scored before i gritted it] you interrupt the oil film continuity and thus the hydrodynamic separation. particularly on cams at low speeds. but the surface features of such damage are that of scuffing and surface tearing - classic lube failure. mine is that of hard particle abrasion - very obvious difference. i'd invite you over to inspect personally, but i don't think your objective is that of discovery > > -jim you really have to learn not to bullshit about stuff you don't know. or not to deny reality when it's presented to you with history and photo evidence. > > > >> as you know if you have experience of this stuff, >> for that surface with those same marks to persist this long, without >> being scuffed off as normally happens, is a truly extraordinary >> testament to a superior lubricant. >> >> google this group for a longer write-up i posted a while ago. >> >> -- >> nomina rutrum rutrum -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: dr_jeff on 5 Apr 2010 10:48
jim beam wrote: > On 04/05/2010 05:53 AM, jim wrote: >> >> >> jim beam wrote: >>> >>> On 04/04/2010 05:31 PM, jim wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>>> based on oil analysis, i have this: >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024(a)N00/4291579733/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Send it to Honda. May be they will rewrite the manual based on your >>>>> findings. >>>> >>>> Maybe the scored cam lobe in that picture will really impress Honda. >>> >>> wow, someone actually noticed!!! 10 points. >>> >>> that cam lobe got marked when i did the head gasket in a hurry and >>> didn't clean up - it was grit during reassembly and it's been that way >>> for 51k miles now. >> >> >> That is not fact it is simply the story you cooked up. > > sorry buddy, is is fact - i personally did the work that caused that > marking, witnessed the condition of the cam before the work, witnessed > the grit that was stuck on the cam lobes by oil film, and the condition > immediately after start-up - which is just like you see now. i > assembled the motor in spite of the fact that it was going to be damaged > by the grit because i was in a hurry and was thinking i'd get rid of > this motor anyway. all it had to do was last one weekend. > > whoops, does that expose your denial and ignorance? [rhetorical] > > >> Regardless of >> what may or may not have happened to your particular engine, it is not >> uncommon to see this sort of engine damage happen to someone who >> changes oil at 10000 miles and experiences a head gasket leak. > > more bullshit. cam lobes do wear and score, but you can't see this cam > up close like i can, and the fine surface detail is completely different > from simple wear and lubrication failure. > > >> >> Basically what happens is the sudden introduction of a small >> amount of >> antifreeze into the oil will overwhelm the additives in the oil that are >> designed to hold small particles of dirt in suspension. When these tiny >> particles that usually do no harm are no longer capable of being held in >> suspension, they will agglomerate into larger particles. That is, the >> tiny particles will be attracted to each other and form into larger >> masses. The damage those larger particles (before they reach the oil >> filter) can do looks exactly like the score marks on your cam. > > bullshit. the reality is that if you have antifreeze in the coolant, > [which mine never had btw, quite apart from the fact that the cam was > not scored before i gritted it] you interrupt the oil film continuity > and thus the hydrodynamic separation. <start sarcasm> You never put antifreeze in the coolant? That's odd. Where do you put antifreeze? How does antifreeze in the coolant interrupt the oil film? I could see that if antifreeze were in the oil, but in the coolant? </end sarcasm> Sorry, couldn't resist? How does antifreeze interrupt the oil film? Does it act like a soap, dissolving it? I imagine alcohol or hand sanitizer (which 60% ethanol) does the same thing. Just like soap disrupts the oil film or whatever on my hands when I wash after checking the oil? Jeff > particularly on cams at low > speeds. but the surface features of such damage are that of scuffing > and surface tearing - classic lube failure. mine is that of hard > particle abrasion - very obvious difference. i'd invite you over to > inspect personally, but i don't think your objective is that of discovery > > >> >> -jim > > you really have to learn not to bullshit about stuff you don't know. or > not to deny reality when it's presented to you with history and photo > evidence. > > >> >> >> >>> as you know if you have experience of this stuff, >>> for that surface with those same marks to persist this long, without >>> being scuffed off as normally happens, is a truly extraordinary >>> testament to a superior lubricant. >>> >>> google this group for a longer write-up i posted a while ago. >>> >>> -- >>> nomina rutrum rutrum > > |