gas over $4 is here! is $5 gas far behind ?
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From: Jeffrey Turner on 19 May 2007 13:04 Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > > Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>Rudy Canoza wrote: >> >> >>>Jeffrey Turner wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Rudy Canoza wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Jeffrey Turner wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Eeyore wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"Fred G. Mackey" wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>But, of course, many jobs pay more than minimum wage anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>That's not why it exists though is it ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Why minimum wage exists? No one can explain why that exists except due >>>>>>>to some misguided altruism at other's expense. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Just because YOU can't understand the explanation, Bill... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The explanation is organized labor. >>>> >>>> >>>>Well, organized labor explains wide American prosperity >>> >>> >>>No. >> >>Well, at least you're terse in your ignorance. >> > > 1) Most Americans are not members of labour unions therefore membership > in labour unions isn't a contingency to American prosperity. Without that kind of political power, maintaining the wide swath of American prosperity isn't going to happen. > 2) There are plenty of countries not doing as well as the US > economically that have far more powerful trade unions, see France. They live longer and have more leisure time. It's not so bad, but with Sarkozy in there things will likely get worse. --Jeff -- We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob. --Franklin D. Roosevelt
From: hc23hc on 19 May 2007 13:18 Rube Canoza <forger> claimed: > > My child attends private school, for which > I pay while still paying for the low-achievers in the > public schools. Don't bring your misbegotten child into this, Rube. The poor brat has enough to live down already with you as his parent, and until you've boned up on the basics of private education in L.A. County you have nothing to teach anyone, not even your kid, least of all about economics. Fact - Private students in California are still defined as funding units to their respective schools of record, all of which are reliant on government subisidies. > I've never called the police or fire > department or been picked up by a fire department > ambulance. Notice you had to qualify which vehicle had *not* yet picked you up, Napoleon. When the coroner comes, have cash ready. .. .. ..
From: Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) on 19 May 2007 13:30 Jeffrey Turner wrote: > > Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > > Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > >>>Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>> > > >>>> > >>>>We don't have anything close to representative democracy in a company. > >>>>Everything is top down. > >>> > >>>We separate the owners of the company from the workers. They can be the > >>>same people but they are separated for purposes of deciding who gets to > >>>control what the company does. > >> > >>But they don't always have the same interests, why shouldn't they > >>implement democracy? > > > > You mean where workers get to vote and so do the shareholders on what to > > do next and how? The owners can decide on that and if they want to do > > it, that's fine with me. > > You mean we shouldn't send the military in to impose democracy? Bill, > you're wimping out. > Since I've never said that it was a requirement to send the military to impose democracy, you are misrepresenting my views even if we were discussing nation states, which we are in point of fact not. We are discussing corporations and the like owned by shareholders, and employees of those corporations. -- "There are some gals who don't like to be pushed and grabbed and lassoed and drug into buses in the middle of the night." "How else was I gonna get her on the bus? Well, I'm askin' ya.", George Axelrod, "Bus Stop"
From: Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) on 19 May 2007 13:31 Jeffrey Turner wrote: > > Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > > Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > >>>Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>>>Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > >>>>>Brent P wrote: > >>>>>>In article <i0n3i.12249$j63.8686(a)newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Rudy Canoza wrote: > >>>>>>>Brent P wrote: > >>>>>>>>In article <134rmaf9jljvrb9(a)corp.supernews.com>, Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>>>>>>>>Brent P wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>In article <1179427123.321229.149360(a)k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, hancock4(a)bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>As to the minimum wage, there is no debate about having it. Rather, > >>>>>>>>>>>the debate is about the amount. There is no denial that the minimum > >>>>>>>>>>>wage results in some loss of jobs. But there also is no denial that > >>>>>>>>>>>the minimum wage increases wages for many people above and beyond what > >>>>>>>>>>>the free market would pay. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>And prices some people too high for the lowest rung of the job market, > >>>>>>>>>>leaving them as dependents of the government (taxpayer). > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>But if there's work that needs doing someone will hire them and train > >>>>>>>>>them. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>Not when there is someone else (an illegal alien) willing to do it for less > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>And not when some alternative mix of inputs, such as > >>>>>>>more capital equipment and/or a few > >>>>>>>higher-skilled/higher-waged workers in place of a > >>>>>>>larger number of low-skilled/low-wage workers, is feasible. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Low wages kill automation. We could do with fewer people making more > >>>>>>money each with less pressure on our infastructure by using automation. > >>>>>>But instead illegal immigration is allowed to go on unchecked to keep > >>>>>>labor costs down. > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>If you don't keep labour costs down, everything will be imported from > >>>>>some place with low labour costs. Duh. Or do you want to block trade? > >>>> > >>>>That is a big problem with "free trade." Eventually the bulk of > >>>>everyone has the standard of living of the poorest nation. Or > >>>>Mississippi. > >>> > >>>Or the poor people become better off and move up the economic ladder. > >> > >>Losing your job to someone who'll work for half the wages *so* often > >>leads to prosperity. > > > > I was talking about the poor all over the world. Bringing everyone up to > > the basics is perhaps something to value at least a little before you > > make sure every American has five DVD players. > > Can the Walton's afford a DVD player? Shocking! The problem is, they > don't manifest enough demand to employ a lot of DVD makers. Supply-side > economics doesn't work. > Do you think that the "Walton's" in 2007 don't have a DVD player? -- "There are some gals who don't like to be pushed and grabbed and lassoed and drug into buses in the middle of the night." "How else was I gonna get her on the bus? Well, I'm askin' ya.", George Axelrod, "Bus Stop"
From: Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) on 19 May 2007 13:33
Jeffrey Turner wrote: > > Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > > > > > Jeffrey Turner wrote: > > > >>Rudy Canoza wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Rudy Canoza wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Jeffrey Turner wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' ) wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>Eeyore wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>"Fred G. Mackey" wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>But, of course, many jobs pay more than minimum wage anyway. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>That's not why it exists though is it ? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>Why minimum wage exists? No one can explain why that exists except due > >>>>>>>to some misguided altruism at other's expense. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>Just because YOU can't understand the explanation, Bill... > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>The explanation is organized labor. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Well, organized labor explains wide American prosperity > >>> > >>> > >>>No. > >> > >>Well, at least you're terse in your ignorance. > >> > > > > 1) Most Americans are not members of labour unions therefore membership > > in labour unions isn't a contingency to American prosperity. > > Without that kind of political power, maintaining the wide swath of > American prosperity isn't going to happen. > It has happened and labour unions have never been controlling in the US. The stagflation, in fact, of the 70s could be attributed to the unions unreasonably extorted wage demands (and the oil spikes from the OPEC embargoes). > > 2) There are plenty of countries not doing as well as the US > > economically that have far more powerful trade unions, see France. > > They live longer and have more leisure time. It's not so bad, but with > Sarkozy in there things will likely get worse. > France is on fire. France is having trouble competing economically. You think that's because of the guy that just got in? Just admit it, socialism is a mistake. -- "There are some gals who don't like to be pushed and grabbed and lassoed and drug into buses in the middle of the night." "How else was I gonna get her on the bus? Well, I'm askin' ya.", George Axelrod, "Bus Stop" |