helmets increase danger
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From: Roland Perry on 14 Apr 2010 03:26 In message <hq2krq$9vp$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, at 21:40:17 on Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> remarked: >Roland Perry wrote: >> I'm not claiming a conscious complete lack of caution/respect; >>rather that a more vulnerable-looking cyclist is likely to be given >>slightly more caution/respect. The corollary of which is that the >>less-vulnerable-looking will be given relatively less caution/respect. >> Or are you claiming that motorists won't give more >>vulnerable-looking cyclists more caution/respect? > > In general, competent looking, considerate road users will get more >respect. I'm sure that motorcyclists overtake me in circumstances where >they would not pass more dozy looking road users. You are using "respect" with a different meaning. I am implying "caution", you are implying "trusting". -- Roland Perry
From: Roland Perry on 14 Apr 2010 03:24 In message <1jgwp30.1cg8y8x1m7tgqN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, at 21:33:40 on Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked: >> I'm not claiming a conscious complete lack of caution/respect; rather >> that a more vulnerable-looking cyclist is likely to be given slightly >> more caution/respect. The corollary of which is that the >> less-vulnerable-looking will be given relatively less caution/respect. >> >> Or are you claiming that motorists won't give more vulnerable-looking >> cyclists more caution/respect? > >I'm pointing out that motorists tend to treat cyclists with caution and >respect. Please answer the question. >Your claims that a motorist, upon seeing a helmet on the head >of a cyclist, will drive to endanger the cyclist is bullshit. I didn't claim that. What I said was that (probably subconsciously) they will give them slightly less respect. -- Roland Perry
From: Roland Perry on 14 Apr 2010 03:28 In message <1jgwp6m.soboyuj8668pN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, at 21:33:40 on Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked: >> >> It applies to the motorist as well, >> > >> >No, it doesn't. >> >> <panto> >> >> Oh yes it does. > ><sigh> No, it doesn't and all you have to support your view is prejudice >and your bizarre belief that if you make up some old bollocks that >others will treat it as true. I note you didn't answer my question regarding whether motorists will give a more vulnerable looking cyclist *more* room (which implies they'll give a less-vulnerable looking one less room). -- Roland Perry
From: Roland Perry on 14 Apr 2010 03:29 In message <Xs2dnUl405ZoUlnWnZ2dnUVZ8qVi4p2d(a)bt.com>, at 21:11:32 on Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Tony Dragon <tony.dragon(a)btinternet.com> remarked: >> But you also probably aren't one of those motorists who thinks >>"there's a cyclist in the road, why isn't he on the shared-use >>pavement where he belongs". > >Obviously I am not, But a lot of them are. > but equally obviously the first thing I see is the cyclist, not >whether he is wearing a helmet or not. I think that subconsciously you probably do, but it doesn't matter because you aren't representative of the motorists I'm talking about. -- Roland Perry
From: Derek C on 14 Apr 2010 06:53
On 13 Apr, 20:55, Roland Perry <rol...(a)perry.co.uk> wrote: > In message <1jgwi5v.l3lemc1g8cakdN%%ste...(a)malloc.co.uk>, at 20:06:05 on > Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Steve Firth <%ste...(a)malloc.co.uk> remarked: > > > > > > >Roland Perry <rol...(a)perry.co.uk> wrote: > > >> In message <1jgvl20.sscdka88vp3lN%%ste...(a)malloc.co.uk>, at 07:09:48 on > >> Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Steve Firth <%ste...(a)malloc.co.uk> remarked: > >> >> >As a motorist, cyclists are just cyclists to me and I can't say that I > >> >> >notice if they are wearing helmets or not. I certainly don't > >> >> >deliberately overtake them any more closely if they are wearing > >> >> >helmets. > > >> >> Then you aren't typical. > > >> >Bullshit. > > >> Neither are you, and thanks for proving my point. > > >The typical motorist that I observe treats cyclists with a considerable > >degree of caution and with repsect for their vulnerability. Atypical > >motorists may behave otherwise. To claim as you do that the situation is > >the reverse of the truth is stupid and patently untrue. > > I'm not claiming a conscious complete lack of caution/respect; rather > that a more vulnerable-looking cyclist is likely to be given slightly > more caution/respect. The corollary of which is that the > less-vulnerable-looking will be given relatively less caution/respect. > > Or are you claiming that motorists won't give more vulnerable-looking > cyclists more caution/respect? > -- As a motorist, I find cyclists just another obstruction that I have to avoid hitting. I do not particularly notice if they are wearing helmets or not, nor does there seem to be a correlation between helmet wearing and competence in riding a bike. I think that this is just another red herring thrown in by the psycholists to justify not wearing those 'work of the devil' cycle helmets! Derek C |