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From: JMS jmsmith2010 on 21 Apr 2010 13:32 On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:54:09 +0100, Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> wrote: <snip> >>Here it is again: >> >>================================================================== >>Feel free to list those cases where it was found that a helmet made >>things worse in a real accident - rather than in an insurance man's >>imagination. >> >>A list of one will be a good start. >>================================================================ >> >>Your response of "Bigger head, more twisting leverage" was not really >>sufficient. >> >>Perhaps you could not find just the one? > >There's some references to the issues we are discussing in here: > >http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7543/722-a/DC1 Thank you - there was some stuff of interest there. However, I couldn't see the bit which discussed the increase in head injury due to wearing a cycle helmet. Which particular section were you thinking of in relation to this point? -- "wearing helmets can sometimes increase the chance of a cyclist being involved in an accident." That august body The CTC (They've already had a slap for lying by the ASA)
From: Peter Clinch on 21 Apr 2010 13:40 Derek C wrote: > So how do you explain the reduction in cyclist KSI figures, during a > period when cylehelmet wearing has become much more commonplace > without any compulsion? Seems like a far better correlation than > anything in cyclehelmets.org! I'll re-refer you to Hewson's 2005 piece in Tarfiic Injury Prevention: he covers the link (or lack thereof) rather more comprehensively (and is honest enough to draw attention to the weaknesses in the data). As Mike pointed out, correlation ain't necessarily causation, and with paragraphs like the one above you pretty much abdicate any benefit you may have had from a science education, at least as far as statistics are concerned. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
From: JMS jmsmith2010 on 23 Apr 2010 18:26 On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:46:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> wrote: <snip> >OK, done what you asked. Fine - as I thought. You cannot provide any evidence whatsoever of any research which has specifically concluded that wearing a cycle helmet increases the risk to the wearer as a result of risk compensation. If you find anything of a serious research nature which does back up your argument in the future - then please feel free to come back and present it. You may go now. -- "wearing helmets can sometimes increase the chance of a cyclist being involved in an accident." That august body The CTC (They've already had a slap for lying by the ASA)
From: Nick Finnigan on 21 Apr 2010 15:33 Roland Perry wrote: > > I did the Cambridge University Maths Faculty statistics course for a > year (only the fresher year I'm afraid), but some of that has probably > stuck. There is no such course.
From: Roland Perry on 24 Apr 2010 01:28
In message <nc74t5d3e3aaae7dv72nlsh8mqhrjtl841(a)4ax.com>, at 23:26:30 on Fri, 23 Apr 2010, JMS <jmsmith2010(a)live.co.uk> remarked: >On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:46:37 +0100, Roland Perry <roland(a)perry.co.uk> >wrote: > ><snip> > >>OK, done what you asked. > >Fine - as I thought. > >You cannot provide any evidence whatsoever of any research which has >specifically concluded that wearing a cycle helmet increases the risk >to the wearer as a result of risk compensation. You are such a pathetic, poor loser. Why does anyone even bother discussing things with you? You ask for evidence, get it, then deny you've been given it. That's it, I'm out. -- Roland Perry |