helmets increase danger
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From: Derek C on 28 Apr 2010 09:36 On Apr 28, 9:41 am, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...(a)dundee.ac.uk> wrote: > Derek C wrote: > > The type accident of accident on a bike I worry about most is being > > struck by an overtaking or following vehicle. Maybe I am statistically > > unlucky, but this has already happened to me twice, once on a push > > bike and once on a motorbike. As I have no control over the actions of > > overtaking or following vehicles, my behaviour, risky or otherwise, > > makes no difference. > > That's very, very wrong. You actually /can/ have a large amount of > control over following and overtaking vehicles through effective use of > road positioning. > > You should get yourself a copy of Cyclecraft and get reading. And/rr > get some cycle training. > > Incidentally, while my personal opinion is that the research was a fair > start but hardly conclusive, one researcher has done practical > experimentation with closeness of passing by overtaking vehicles. And > one of his findings was that cars passed closer on average when he was > wearing a helmet than when he didn't. So if that really does hold water > you're at more risk of being rear-ended /because/ you're wearing your > helmet, and thus behaving in a way that increases your risk... > > Pete. > -- In the motor cycle accident I was sitting squarely in the middle of my lane at some red traffiic lights when I was rear ended by a drunk driver who totally failed to stop. In the push bike accident I gor ahead of the waiting traffic at a red traffic light and moved off as soon a it turned to green. About 50 yards down the road I was overtaken by a small truck who failed to give me enough room. I was struck on my right arm and hand, hit the kerb and fell off. I was not wearing a helmet and I was very lucky not to hit my head on a rather solid piece of street furniture. How would anything in Cyclecraft have helped in the above circumstances? Derek C
From: Mike Clark on 28 Apr 2010 10:57 In message <hr7d2g$bsb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> wrote: > Mike Clark wrote: > > > > We as individuals often tend to exhibit similar behaviour in taking > > risks in many activities that we do including driving and cycling. If > > you buy a car with better brakes and better handling, you may have a > > tendency to drive faster, brake later and corner faster. As an opposite, > > Nobody drives faster (other than when cornering) if they get a car with > better brakes and better handling. Hardly anyone would corner faster. > The few that do corner faster will be safer than those that don't. > I certainly do. There is simply no way that I would have driven my 1954 Morris Cowley into corners the same way that I do in my Subaru Forester. It used to take me two days to drive to Scotland, now I do the same trip in less than half the time. > > if you are given a car which you are unfamiliar with, or which seems > > to show poor handling, you're more likely to drive it cautiously. > > You think that people drive hire cars cautiously ? Yes I do, at least until I've familiarised myself with the handling characteristics. Mike -- o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"
From: Mike Clark on 28 Apr 2010 11:01 In message <hr7obc$ulh$1(a)news.eternal-september.org> Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> wrote: > Roland Perry wrote: > > In message <hr7d2g$bsb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, at 20:14:23 on > > Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> remarked: > > > >> Nobody drives faster (other than when cornering) if they get a car > >> with better brakes and better handling. Hardly anyone would corner > >> faster. > > > > This is an observation from your own experience as a driver? > > Yes, hardly anyone drives close to limits of performance. Who mentioned anything about close to the limits of performance? I'm sure that an experienced racing driver could take any vehicle that I had driven and perform a similar course in a lower time. I might only be driving the vehicle at 50% or maybe less of its limits performance, but that doesn't mean that I don't drive different vehicles at different speeds. > > > It's directly at variance with my own observations. > > How many cars do you see being driven anything like a motorbike? Mike -- o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
From: john wright on 28 Apr 2010 13:18 On 27/04/2010 23:26, Nick Finnigan wrote: > Roland Perry wrote: >> In message <hr7d2g$bsb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, at 20:14:23 on >> Tue, 27 Apr 2010, Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk> remarked: >> >>> Nobody drives faster (other than when cornering) if they get a car >>> with better brakes and better handling. Hardly anyone would corner >>> faster. >> >> This is an observation from your own experience as a driver? > > Yes, hardly anyone drives close to limits of performance. Indeed, one only needs to go to a track day at a race circuit to experience what cars are *really* capable of. I would however say that one's requirements for a car to own are fundamentally long term. For a car for rent they can be very short term and thus very different. However, people's driving styles take precedence. >> It's directly at variance with my own observations. > > How many cars do you see being driven anything like a motorbike? From experience as a motorcyclist, none. -- John Wright Use your imagination Marvin! Life's bad enough as it is - why invent any more of it.
From: Roland Perry on 28 Apr 2010 12:39
In message <9c4705f4-32e4-4658-af28-90839eb36a32(a)n5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, at 06:36:15 on Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Derek C <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> remarked: >In the motor cycle accident I was sitting squarely in the middle of my >lane at some red traffiic lights when I was rear ended by a drunk >driver who totally failed to stop. I've had exactly the same; but I was in a car stopped at a red light. Was rammed in the rear by a motorcyclist (hard enough to almost write off my car) and he wasn't drunk, just impatient and apparently unaware that speed limits applied to him, especially in the rain. He was carted off in an ambulance, leaving me an insurance bill of �5k (this was 30 years ago, so more like �10k today) plus whatever a new monster-BMW bike costs. The accident was August (my car was less than a month old) and I didn't get it back till after Xmas (lots of wrangling about whether they could/should repair it). -- Roland Perry |