helmets increase danger
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From: Peter Clinch on 29 Apr 2010 07:21 Derek C wrote: > So cycling is a lot more dangerous than you claim then! No, unless you think any accident equates to "unsafe". > There are enough things to worry about when driving, without making a > special point of checking cyclists to see if they are wearing cycle > helmets or not! Even if I did notice, it wouldn't make any difference > to my decision making. I think your lady driver must be in a very > small minority. Yet the research on passing distances found results that suggested helmet wearing did influence passing space. Again, you love to quote figures and reports that happen to agree with your preconceived opinions but won't bother even looking properly at anything which may confound them. That's very poor science. >> Do you have, or at least have read, Cyclecraft? >> > Yes Well, that's /something/. I take it you don't believe the stuff on helmets and road positioning therein though? Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
From: Roland Perry on 29 Apr 2010 07:17 In message <c6fde102-d4a0-455d-a9b1-85fc6c89e111(a)o11g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, at 21:01:16 on Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Derek C <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> remarked: >I believe that this is a fatuous argument anyway, because when I am >driving a car, cyclists just register to me as cyclists and I don't >notice if they are wearing helmets or not. A commonplace fallacy - projecting your impression of your own conscious behaviour onto other people's subconscious behaviour. -- Roland Perry
From: Roland Perry on 29 Apr 2010 07:28 In message <cb115d4f-0ab5-4451-bfff-b03116b221b7(a)37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at 20:42:36 on Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Derek C <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> remarked: >> >> >In the motor cycle accident I was sitting squarely in the middle of my >> >lane at some red traffiic lights when I was rear ended by a drunk >> >driver who totally failed to stop. >> >> I've had exactly the same; but I was in a car stopped at a red light. >> Was rammed in the rear by a motorcyclist (hard enough to almost write >> off my car) and he wasn't drunk, just impatient and apparently unaware >> that speed limits applied to him, especially in the rain. >> >> He was carted off in an ambulance, leaving me an insurance bill of �5k >> (this was 30 years ago, so more like >> �10k today) plus whatever a new monster-BMW bike costs. The accident was >> August (my car was less than a month old) and I didn't get it back till >> after Xmas (lots of wrangling about whether they could/should repair >> it). > >As the motorcyclist was clearly at fault, why were you left with a big >insurance bill? I expect the bike's insurers eventually paid the bill (but as it was a company car, I didn't see the paperwork at first hand). >Was he insured? Generally speaking, if you rear end >somebody it is your fault and your responsibility. If he had been uninsured I expect the police would have been more enthusiastic in prosecuting him [for careless driving]. They dropped the case. The bike was also "company owned" (a large courier company) <corner case> unless it was a self-employed franchisee </corner case> >My motorbike was almost a write off, but the motorist offered to pay >in full as long as I didn't involve the Police because he was >obviously very drunk and in danger of losing his licence. The police (and ambulance for the biker) arrived swiftly, as we were blocking one of the main roads into Reading! They were called by people in one of the office blocks overlooking the scene. It was quite interesting because the cop was starring in a "traffic cops" fly-on-the-wall documentary (one of the first) at the time; but no cameras with him that day. >Amazingly he >paid the several hundred pound repair bill (several thousand pounds in >today's devalued money) out of his own pocket by return of post. I don't know what the bike cost, but the repair to my car was �5k+, and about five months rental of a replacement. The car had cost about �6k, and a similar one today would be about �25k. -- Roland Perry
From: Derek C on 29 Apr 2010 07:56 On Apr 29, 12:21 pm, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...(a)dundee.ac.uk> wrote: > Derek C wrote: > > So cycling is a lot more dangerous than you claim then! > > No, unless you think any accident equates to "unsafe". > > > There are enough things to worry about when driving, without making a > > special point of checking cyclists to see if they are wearing cycle > > helmets or not! Even if I did notice, it wouldn't make any difference > > to my decision making. I think your lady driver must be in a very > > small minority. > > Yet the research on passing distances found results that suggested > helmet wearing did influence passing space. > That will be Dr Ian Walker's paper with data and graphs with biased axes then? There is some evidence that he deliberately rode further out to the middle of the road when he was wearing a helmet (risk compensation?) so there is no wonder that the passing clearances decreased! Derek C
From: Peter Clinch on 29 Apr 2010 08:12
Derek C wrote: > That will be Dr Ian Walker's paper with data and graphs with biased > axes then? There is some evidence that he deliberately rode further > out to the middle of the road when he was wearing a helmet (risk > compensation?) so there is no wonder that the passing clearances > decreased! One of the things he was working on was distance from the kerb and it's influence IIRC... what exactly is "some evidence"? "No wonder the passing clearances decreased"? IME if I ride further out then passing distance /increases/. Cars can't squeeze by while not encroaching on the other side of the road so the drivers bother overtaking properly, as per THC Rule 163, http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314 Look again in Cyclecraft at primary and secondary positions. There are very good reasons for not staying close in to the kerb. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |