write your congress-critter - increased ethanol in gasoline
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From: jim beam on 25 Jun 2010 21:29 On 06/25/2010 12:43 PM, jim wrote: > > > "C. E. White" wrote: >> >> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >> news:5PqdnaaS2JY7cYLRnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>> On 06/21/2010 12:53 PM, C. E. White wrote: >>>> A few counterpoints: >>>> >>>> 1)Ethanol has value as an oxygenate that helps lower HC emmisions. I'd >>>> rather they use ethanol for this purpose instead of MBTE. >>> >>> it increases the "oxygen content" of exhaust, simply because there is >>> oxygen in an ethanol molecule. but that oxygen doesn't help combustion >>> because it's already chemically combined. >> >> OK. I buy that, but if the choice is MBTE or ethanol, I'd rather have >> ethanol. If the choice also includes neither, I am for that. > > Use of ethanol as fuel for the most part has nothing to do with oxygen. but that is the "official" reason, even if it's a factual misrepresentation. > Most of the ethanol is being added as an octane booster. bullshit. even the oilco's don't say that any more. > MTBE was the > first choice of the refiners to replace lead in gasoline when the phase > out of lead started in the mid 70's. it's not about lead replacement, it's about "oxygenate", otherwise known as "calorie reducer" or "volumizer". >After most of the states and > finally the EPA banned the use of MTBE because it was showing up in > drinking water all over the country, ethanol took off because it is > really the only viable octane booster available. see above. and it's a politically acceptable cash cow for the agricultural conglomerates. > Everything else has > environmental ot economic disadvantages. > And the main reason an octane booster is used is it saves petroleum at > the foundry. "foundry"??? is ethanol used to make steel? and it /increases/ gasoline sales, not reduces it. > The refiners can meet the octane requirements without > ethanol but it would require about 3% more petroleum input. no, they would lose 3% in sales because of the higher calorie content. > > The EPA also claims an oxygenate must be added in the winter in some > urban areas in the country where smog is a problem. hocus pocus. > > >> >>>> 2) While the sort of corn used to make ethanol is food, it is mostly food >>>> for livestock. And after you use it to make ethanol, the stuff left over >>>> is >>>> actually still usable as high protein animal feed, so the loss to the >>>> food >>>> chain is much much less than the anti-ethanol people claim. >>> >>> isn't livestock classified as "food"? feeding corn to cattle makes a >>> damned sight more sense than burning it. especially when that corn >>> consumes more energy during cultivation and processing than it yields in >>> energy output. >> >> See references further below regarding the "energy balance." And of course >> there is a whole different discussion rearding the use of corn to feed >> animals, instead of using corn (or other crop grown instead of corn) to feed >> people directly. I raise around 50 head of cattle. I don't feed them any >> corn at all. They eat grass, with limited quantities of oats and stored hay >> as a winter supplement. But most Americans prefer beef with high fat contnet >> and that means "grain fed" beef. > > That is right. The more corn that goes into ethanol the less diabetes > and heart disease. idiot. > >> Think how many Mexicans we could feed if we >> stopped diverting all that corn to cattle, hogs, and chickens. > > Mexicans had no problem growing enough corn to feed themselves before US > dump surplus grain on Mexico in the 90's. Destroying rural economies is > not feeding people it is wiping out their livelihood through greedy > predatory marketing. > > >> >> Actaully I am against the ethanol subsidies paid to oil companies. >> > > The stated purpose of the subsidy when passed by congress was to > compensate the oil companies for closing down their MTBE production > facilities. The ethanol producer organizations say they can do without > the subsidy as it won't affect ethanol usage, but eliminating it will > raise the cost of gasoline. bullshit. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim on 25 Jun 2010 22:25
jim beam wrote: > > On 06/25/2010 12:43 PM, jim wrote: > > > > > > "C. E. White" wrote: > >> > >> "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > >> news:5PqdnaaS2JY7cYLRnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > >>> On 06/21/2010 12:53 PM, C. E. White wrote: > >>>> A few counterpoints: > >>>> > >>>> 1)Ethanol has value as an oxygenate that helps lower HC emmisions. I'd > >>>> rather they use ethanol for this purpose instead of MBTE. > >>> > >>> it increases the "oxygen content" of exhaust, simply because there is > >>> oxygen in an ethanol molecule. but that oxygen doesn't help combustion > >>> because it's already chemically combined. > >> > >> OK. I buy that, but if the choice is MBTE or ethanol, I'd rather have > >> ethanol. If the choice also includes neither, I am for that. > > > > Use of ethanol as fuel for the most part has nothing to do with oxygen. > > but that is the "official" reason, even if it's a factual misrepresentation. No it is not the official reason. Oxygenated formulas are only required in the winter in a relatively small geographical part of the US. The official reason is it was approved back in 1975 for the new cars that required lead free gas. Ethanol was one of several permitted lead substitutes. Today it is the only one left standing. > > > Most of the ethanol is being added as an octane booster. > > bullshit. even the oilco's don't say that any more. Yeah well than why is it in almost every gas tank in the US. It is the middle of summer in case you haven't noticed. > > > MTBE was the > > first choice of the refiners to replace lead in gasoline when the phase > > out of lead started in the mid 70's. > > it's not about lead replacement, it's about "oxygenate", otherwise known > as "calorie reducer" or "volumizer". Your stupidity is only surpassed by your ignorance. > > >After most of the states and > > finally the EPA banned the use of MTBE because it was showing up in > > drinking water all over the country, ethanol took off because it is > > really the only viable octane booster available. > > see above. and it's a politically acceptable cash cow for the > agricultural conglomerates. > > > Everything else has > > environmental ot economic disadvantages. > > And the main reason an octane booster is used is it saves petroleum at > > the foundry. > > "foundry"??? is ethanol used to make steel? and it /increases/ > gasoline sales, not reduces it. FYI, foundries don't make steel. That sentence should have been - the main reason an octane booster is used is it reduces petroleum input at the refinery. > > > The refiners can meet the octane requirements without > > ethanol but it would require about 3% more petroleum input. > > no, they would lose 3% in sales because of the higher calorie content. There is no point talking numbers with some one who can't add, subtract or count. |