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From: Ashton Crusher on 27 Feb 2010 13:29
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:58:25 -0700, "M.M." <nobody(a)nowhere.com> wrote:

>I'm looking for a pickup to tow a fifth-wheel trailer. I'm looking at a
>2008 F-350 with the 6.4L turbo. Anyone have any experience with this
>model? Any known issues? How do the Ford diesels compare to the Chevy &
>Dodge in reliability?

Look for one with the V-10 gas engine. We've got a couple and work
and they are great and a friends father, who tows a fifth wheel
trailer, who originally was going to get a diesel got the V-10 instead
and was really glad he did. We also have diesels in our work fleet of
4x4s and they really don't get particularly good gas mileage overall
and they don't do much towing. I think diesels for "home use" are
vastly over rated considering how expensive the repairs and
maintenance sometimes are.
From: Pete C. on 27 Feb 2010 23:01

Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:58:25 -0700, "M.M." <nobody(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm looking for a pickup to tow a fifth-wheel trailer. I'm looking at a
> >2008 F-350 with the 6.4L turbo. Anyone have any experience with this
> >model? Any known issues? How do the Ford diesels compare to the Chevy &
> >Dodge in reliability?
>
> Look for one with the V-10 gas engine. We've got a couple and work
> and they are great and a friends father, who tows a fifth wheel
> trailer, who originally was going to get a diesel got the V-10 instead
> and was really glad he did. We also have diesels in our work fleet of
> 4x4s and they really don't get particularly good gas mileage overall
> and they don't do much towing. I think diesels for "home use" are
> vastly over rated considering how expensive the repairs and
> maintenance sometimes are.

If you find a diesel that gets good gas mileage, you've got a problem
since they don't run on gas.

Despite what some distorted ratings may appear to show, diesels do
outperform gas engines for towing and hauling. If you aren't doing any
towing or hauling, they mostly cost more in maintenance, but they also
last longer as long as you aren't in the rust belt where the vehicle
rusts out long before the engine wears out.
From: Steve on 1 Mar 2010 11:20
M.M. wrote:
> Pete C. wrote:
>> "M.M." wrote:
>>> I'm looking for a pickup to tow a fifth-wheel trailer. I'm looking at a
>>> 2008 F-350 with the 6.4L turbo. Anyone have any experience with this
>>> model? Any known issues? How do the Ford diesels compare to the Chevy &
>>> Dodge in reliability?
>>
>> All current diesels, regardless of brand have some manageable issues due
>> to the new emissions requirements. If you want to avoid the new
>> emissions issues you'll have to buy a 2006 or earlier model.
>>
> [snip lots of good info]
>
> Thanks, Pete, that's the stuff I wanted to know. Sounds like buying a
> used one is a pretty big gamble unless you know for sure how well it was
> maintained. Sounds like diesels are at about the same stage as cars in
> the early 70's when they started with the emission control...lots of
> problems until they sorted them out.

I wouldn't say THAT. The diesel emissions-related problems are
relatively minor compared to the nightmare of first-gen emission
controls on gasoline cars.

Ford had a ton of issues when Navistar (the supplier of Ford's diesel
engine for many years) switched from the proven 7.3L engine to the 6.0L,
and some persisted into the 6.4L version currently sold. Dodge had
significantly fewer issues with the Cummins ISB engine, and GM's Duramax
also seemed to have fewer problems than Ford did too. Two big changes at
once (emissions, plus a brand new engine/turbocharger architecture)
really hammered the 6.0 and 6.4 Fords. I'd say the 6.4 right now is
"decent" but probably not back to 7.3 reliability. And Ford is planning
to do away with Navistar altogether and use their home-brewed "Scorpion"
diesel v8 soon.... which may be another whole round of teething pains.
The Scorpion looks good on paper (although I have my doubts about an
aluminum-block Diesel) and is purportedly going to hit the market with
much more extensive testing than the 6.0 did. That's good.


From: Pete C. on 1 Mar 2010 12:52

Steve wrote:
>
> M.M. wrote:
> > Pete C. wrote:
> >> "M.M." wrote:
> >>> I'm looking for a pickup to tow a fifth-wheel trailer. I'm looking at a
> >>> 2008 F-350 with the 6.4L turbo. Anyone have any experience with this
> >>> model? Any known issues? How do the Ford diesels compare to the Chevy &
> >>> Dodge in reliability?
> >>
> >> All current diesels, regardless of brand have some manageable issues due
> >> to the new emissions requirements. If you want to avoid the new
> >> emissions issues you'll have to buy a 2006 or earlier model.
> >>
> > [snip lots of good info]
> >
> > Thanks, Pete, that's the stuff I wanted to know. Sounds like buying a
> > used one is a pretty big gamble unless you know for sure how well it was
> > maintained. Sounds like diesels are at about the same stage as cars in
> > the early 70's when they started with the emission control...lots of
> > problems until they sorted them out.
>
> I wouldn't say THAT. The diesel emissions-related problems are
> relatively minor compared to the nightmare of first-gen emission
> controls on gasoline cars.
>
> Ford had a ton of issues when Navistar (the supplier of Ford's diesel
> engine for many years) switched from the proven 7.3L engine to the 6.0L,
> and some persisted into the 6.4L version currently sold. Dodge had
> significantly fewer issues with the Cummins ISB engine, and GM's Duramax
> also seemed to have fewer problems than Ford did too. Two big changes at
> once (emissions, plus a brand new engine/turbocharger architecture)
> really hammered the 6.0 and 6.4 Fords. I'd say the 6.4 right now is
> "decent" but probably not back to 7.3 reliability. And Ford is planning
> to do away with Navistar altogether and use their home-brewed "Scorpion"
> diesel v8 soon.... which may be another whole round of teething pains.
> The Scorpion looks good on paper (although I have my doubts about an
> aluminum-block Diesel) and is purportedly going to hit the market with
> much more extensive testing than the 6.0 did. That's good.

As I said, don't ever buy version 1.0 of anything. The 6.0 had huge
problems initially, but by the last batches of 6.0s they had them doing
ok. The early 6.4s had problems, but in the later versions they are
fine. The new 6.7/Scorpion will likely sting early adopters as well, and
after a year or two will probably be doing ok.
From: cuhulin on 1 Mar 2010 14:58
Cast iron engines last longer than aluminum engines.
cuhulin

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