RLC triggering on legal right on red
in [Drive]
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From: gpsman on 15 Jan 2010 11:28 On Jan 15, 9:27 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrous...(a)nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote: > "gpsman" <gps...(a)driversmail.com> wrote > > * Except that if a RLC camera flash is occurring for any reason other than > to indicate a red light camera violation occurred for specifically running a > red light, And if it flashes to compensate for exposure...? What do you propose the flash intended to "indicate", to whom, and why...? > the camera is malfunctioning You don't know that. What you know about the operation of RLCs is dwarfed by what you don't know. > and is a de-facto traffic hazard of > its own. Did you see anything in Brent's vid that suggests those drivers considered it a hazard...? >>Do they flash apparently without cause for other reasons? > I don't know, maybe they were capturing random traffic for > monitoring/surveillance purposes? There ya go, Sparky. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. You don't know. > Still, a RLC should only flash when a > photo has been taken specifically for actually running a red light. If the > driver stops on red and then makes a right turn (or, for a one-way street it > can be a left turn) on red, the RLC must not ever flash. Why...?! > No bugs or any other design issues > should ever be tolerated, the RLC camera technology does need to be 100% > error free if the photo tickets are to be enforced properly. Right. RLCs must be perfect. It's only fair that they adhere to the identical standard demanded of you, whenever you do whatever it is you do... Brent has functional illiteracy and paranoia as mitigating factors of his fuckwittedness, what have you got...? ----- - gpsman
From: Daniel W. Rouse Jr. on 16 Jan 2010 00:03 "gpsman" <gpsman(a)driversmail.com> wrote in message news:75114c8c-9e5f-45b7-884b-9479be435cf4(a)t42g2000vba.googlegroups.com... On Jan 15, 9:27 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrous...(a)nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote: > "gpsman" <gps...(a)driversmail.com> wrote > > * Except that if a RLC camera flash is occurring for any reason other than > to indicate a red light camera violation occurred for specifically running > a > red light, And if it flashes to compensate for exposure...? * If you're talking about a pre-flash? Then it should still only be occurring on red a fraction of second before the main flash. Flashing on green is at least 3.5 seconds too early--even more earlier the longer the light remains green--assuming an almost immediate change from green to yellow, a 3 second yellow time interval and an 0.5 second grace period before the camera takes the photo. Furthermore, digital cameras tend to use other factors for exposure compensation, not just the pre-flash. What do you propose the flash intended to "indicate", to whom, and why...? * The flash has indicated a vehicle has crossed the limit line while the light was NOT red, right? > the camera is malfunctioning You don't know that. What you know about the operation of RLCs is dwarfed by what you don't know. * If it's flashing for any other reason that a driver crossing the limit line by running the red light, it is clearly a malfunction. If the designer of the system intended it to flash for any other reason, it should not be called a red light camera and the public should be informed that those cameras are continuous monitoring, subject to taking pictures at any time even if the light is not red. > and is a de-facto traffic hazard of > its own. Did you see anything in Brent's vid that suggests those drivers considered it a hazard...? * Doesn't matter, it's a distraction in my own opinion, and therefore a potential hazard. Drivers have cause to wonder why the camera flashed when they didn't run the red, it will distract from otherwise focusing on defensive driving. >>Do they flash apparently without cause for other reasons? > I don't know, maybe they were capturing random traffic for > monitoring/surveillance purposes? There ya go, Sparky. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. You don't know. * It would make sense to record traffic during a period of time, for example, in the event of a stolen vehicle just recently reported. Analyze the photos to see if the stolen vehicle was seen in the area/captured by the cameras. Yeah, okay I don't know that but it's still a reasonable enough guess. > Still, a RLC should only flash when a > photo has been taken specifically for actually running a red light. If the > driver stops on red and then makes a right turn (or, for a one-way street > it > can be a left turn) on red, the RLC must not ever flash. Why...?! * Because it is a Red Light Camera? Only supposed to record running red light violations? Stopping before turning is not running the red light as long as the stop occurs behind the limit line, and the sensor can record a vehicle at 0mph for the minimum required time (let's assume a minimum of an 0.5 second stop). > No bugs or any other design issues > should ever be tolerated, the RLC camera technology does need to be 100% > error free if the photo tickets are to be enforced properly. Right. RLCs must be perfect. It's only fair that they adhere to the identical standard demanded of you, whenever you do whatever it is you do... * Programs, however, can and often due have bugs. At the highest level of abstraction, the red light camera is effectively a device running some software and/or firmware that makes the determination that the sensor has been tripped and a violation photo should be taken, correct? Here's a reasonable general expected use case for a red light camera: 1. Light turns red. 2. Grace period before the camera takes the photo elapses. 3. Camera takes the photo of any vehicle crossing sensor past the limit line while the light is red. Here's an easy defect scenario, as an example, from the use case above and the initial topic of this discussion. Steps to reproduce: 1. Light is green 2. Cross the limit line at the normal speed of traffic flow Observed behavior: The red light camera flashes for each vehicle crossing the limit line while the light is green, rather than red. Expected behavior: 1. The red light camera should only be flashing when a vehicle crosses the limit line while the light is red. 2. The red light camera should not flash for a vehicle that has stopped before the limit line, before making a right turn on red in the absence of signs prohibiting right on red. [snip...]
From: gpsman on 16 Jan 2010 01:03
On Jan 16, 12:03 am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." <dwrous...(a)nethere.comNOSPAM> wrote: > > Here's a reasonable general expected use case for a red light camera: <snore> And if "real world" false positives were being gathered for training purposes what a driver should expect while navigating the "real world" has thus been made excessively hazardous by adding 1 to the mountain of countless possible distractions...? If you'd care to compare real world distractions take a drive through Haleiwa past Masumoto's Shave Ice with dozens of the hardest bikini- clad bodies attached to the most drop-dead gorgeous girls on the planet strolling both shoulders, a sight common all along the North Shore. Then, after you catch your breath and your brain is again enjoying its normal availability of blood, get back to me about your intermittent camera flash. I don't need any more evidence for my theory that k00ks grow k00kier with each subsequent post... but that's just me. ----- - gpsman |