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From: Kevin on 6 Dec 2008 22:06
Jack <Jack(a)the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in
news:ING_k.5676$8_3.2156(a)flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com:

> Kevin wrote:
>> Mike Romain <romainm(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in news:493af7ae$0$26770
>> $9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com:
>>
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chrysler refers to these carbs as "lean burn carburetors", so there
>> may
>>>> be something in the design that causes a lean mix, But the only
>>>> real difference between this "lean burn" variety and the feedback
>>>> variety that came stock on this vehicle is the extra main jet
>>>> controlled by
>> the
>>>> mixture control solenoid, and the auxiliary idle air bleeds that
>>>> are also controlled by the mixture control solenoid.
>>> Isn't the intake different on the lean burn carb also? Or maybe the
>> EGR
>>> or even the cam is different? On my Jeep there are 5 flavors of EGR
>>> that can be used according to other emission components. I had one
>> lean
>>> burn once and remember something odd about it, beside it not being
>> able
>>> to get out of it's own way.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I would be the only one here to believe it was fine and dandy all
>> along. the new carb was ok, unless you have another indicator other
>> than the plugs it is lean, I doubt it is. white plugs unless bubbled
>> are common with todays gas. get a airfuel ratio check if you must,
>> but I bet it was ok before you started messing with it. KB
>
> I would be fine with that, Kevin, but on the last California smog
> test, it failed the CO portion on both 15mph and 25mph. After
> fiddling, it *barely* passed the HC test at 15mph. Unfortunately, I
> would have to do some serious memory recall to remember what I fiddled
> with.
>
> Plus, there is the part about seeing the plugs in another engine in
> the area with toasty tan plugs.
>
> But I will keep in mind what you posted about white plugs not being
> out of the ordinary. The only things that I am concerned about are 1)
> not killing the engine, 2) passing the next smog test and 3) getting
> good mileage and performance. Plug color is way down the list, as you
> rightly point out that it should be.
>

I am guessing, but without the feedback carb your going to have trouble
passing a smog anyway. If you can find a non conputer dist. it might pay
to get it and play to see what can be done. there usually is a smog
setting and a good running setting. find out each and change only when
smogging it. KB
Ps a dyno tune might pay here.

--
THUNDERSNAKE #9

Protect your rights or "Lose" them
The 2nd Admendment guarantees the others
From: Mike Romain on 7 Dec 2008 09:56
Kevin wrote:
> Jack <Jack(a)the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in
> news:ING_k.5676$8_3.2156(a)flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com:
>
>> Kevin wrote:
>>> Mike Romain <romainm(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in news:493af7ae$0$26770
>>> $9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com:
>>>
>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chrysler refers to these carbs as "lean burn carburetors", so there
>>> may
>>>>> be something in the design that causes a lean mix, But the only
>>>>> real difference between this "lean burn" variety and the feedback
>>>>> variety that came stock on this vehicle is the extra main jet
>>>>> controlled by
>>> the
>>>>> mixture control solenoid, and the auxiliary idle air bleeds that
>>>>> are also controlled by the mixture control solenoid.
>>>> Isn't the intake different on the lean burn carb also? Or maybe the
>>> EGR
>>>> or even the cam is different? On my Jeep there are 5 flavors of EGR
>>>> that can be used according to other emission components. I had one
>>> lean
>>>> burn once and remember something odd about it, beside it not being
>>> able
>>>> to get out of it's own way.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I would be the only one here to believe it was fine and dandy all
>>> along. the new carb was ok, unless you have another indicator other
>>> than the plugs it is lean, I doubt it is. white plugs unless bubbled
>>> are common with todays gas. get a airfuel ratio check if you must,
>>> but I bet it was ok before you started messing with it. KB
>> I would be fine with that, Kevin, but on the last California smog
>> test, it failed the CO portion on both 15mph and 25mph. After
>> fiddling, it *barely* passed the HC test at 15mph. Unfortunately, I
>> would have to do some serious memory recall to remember what I fiddled
>> with.
>>
>> Plus, there is the part about seeing the plugs in another engine in
>> the area with toasty tan plugs.
>>
>> But I will keep in mind what you posted about white plugs not being
>> out of the ordinary. The only things that I am concerned about are 1)
>> not killing the engine, 2) passing the next smog test and 3) getting
>> good mileage and performance. Plug color is way down the list, as you
>> rightly point out that it should be.
>>
>
> I am guessing, but without the feedback carb your going to have trouble
> passing a smog anyway. If you can find a non conputer dist. it might pay
> to get it and play to see what can be done. there usually is a smog
> setting and a good running setting. find out each and change only when
> smogging it. KB
> Ps a dyno tune might pay here.
>

I was also thinking on the distributor. The system AMC Jeep used on
their last generation of carb engines that could almost be called a lean
burn system with a feedback carb needs the distributor signals modified
when the carb is changed out to a non feedback type or we can even just
manually set the feedback system's stepper motor's air bypass pins and
manually tune the carb to nicely pass emissions.

We do however need to hook the ignition module directly to the
distributor to do this. This eliminates the computer's input to the
timing advance and makes a radical power difference. Things like the
knock sensor are disabled also, so the timing and octane levels of the
fuel need to be set up right.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
From: TE Chea on 14 Dec 2008 10:41
| Plug insulators are still snow white after all
| driving conditions.
What brand are these plugs ? NGK's insulators ( bigger & so
remain hotter ) can stay clean better than Champion / Denso.
Your plugs' heat range sounds correct.
www.ngksparkplugs.com.my/english/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=64

| Any suggestions as to what might be causing this plug condition?
I believe insulators cannot get soot in dry air ; I used to drive in
0�C dry air using Champion N9Y plugs, & once for 4 hr when
thermostat had overstretched & could not close so carb & engine
were too cold ( weak & coughing ) in 15�C dry air, no soot @ all.
Now in 27-32�C humid air, I have a soot problem to mitigate.

| Absolutely nothing makes sense.
Why worry w-o a problem ? Are you in dry air ? If exhaust has
a O2 sensor, 1 can connect a voltmeter & see if mix is lean.




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