The Automobile Subsidy
in [Drive]
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From: Matthew Russotto on 11 Nov 2009 21:10 In article <0c8868c0-ca8c-4573-8a02-ad759c56eab7(a)d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, <hancock4(a)bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: >On Nov 11, 8:20=A0pm, russo...(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) >wrote: >> In article <03f7b726-1c09-4485-8b2b-7c9873b12...(a)d21g2000yqn.googlegroups= >.com>, >> >> =A0<hanco...(a)bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: >> >Speaking of New Jersey, it should be noted that while NJ has the >> >lowest gasoline taxes in the country, it has the highest property >> >taxes. =A0No surprise there because in NJ counties use that property tax >> >money to pay for a massive road network. =A0In other states those types >> >of roads would be state roads, paid for by the state. >> >> Nice try. New Jerseys low gas tax is historically due to the large presen= >ce >> of the petroleum industry in that state; taxes on that industry make >> up for the lower gas tax. =A0It doesn't hurt that most of the major >> highways in New Jersey -- the Turnpike, the Parkway, and the Atlantic >> City Expressway -- are all toll roads. > >Except there are many freeways and Interstates in NJ that are not toll >roads. Sure, there's I-295 in the northwest, and I-195 across the center. But a rather large proportion of NJs major highways are toll. >If the petroleum industry contributes so much, why is the state broke? Because it spends like a drunken sailor, and not largely on roads. -- The problem with socialism is there's always someone with less ability and more need.
From: Brent on 11 Nov 2009 22:09 On 2009-11-12, hancock4(a)bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4(a)bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > If the petroleum industry contributes so much, why is the state broke? Um, because govenments tend to spend everything they can get and then some. Any part of government that shows responsibility and doesn't spend all it has every year risks having its budget cut next year or having its surplus raided for other things. Look at road funds, saved up for large expenses for things that last decades only to find the funds raided. In Chicago Daley and the skyway and the parking meters are prime examples. Leased for 99 years with a lump sum payment and much of the money is already spent with about 97 years to go on the leases. If the money is there, they will spend it.
From: Orval Fairbairn on 11 Nov 2009 22:35 In article <usomf5tc6uru6soqulouf87culjq0ocobd(a)4ax.com>, Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:47:01 -0500, Orval Fairbairn > <o_r_fairbairn(a)earth_link.net> wrote: > > >In article <kdkkf5lrg9taqcb96veu5j10gfumrqo81r(a)4ax.com>, > > Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> Last time on rec.autos.driving, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew > >> Russotto) said: > >> > >> >In article <680if5tdsm4dssulp1t6qp9db9e23uucs6(a)4ax.com>, > >> >Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >>Owning and operating a car costs many thousands of dollars per year. > >> >>Most American families own more than one. Imagine how much higher your > >> >>standard of living could be if you could save the costs of owning, > >> >>licensing, insuring, maintaining, and parking even one of your cars. > >> > > >> >You mean _lower_? Because the few grand we'd save wouldn't nearly make > >> >up for the inability for me and my wife to simultaneously have the > >> >freedom of movement our automobiles provide. > >> > >> Heh - you call sitting in a traffic jam "freedom of movement?" > > > >..... if you don't live in a people kennel in an urban jungle, breathing > >smog! > > > >There is a whole BIG country out there that is accessable only via > >private automobile or aircraft! There is little to compare with flying > >along the Bitterroot Range east of Jackson Hole, looking at the contrast > >of snoe, red-brown earth, clouds and sky. > > For scenery try taking the California Zephyr from San Francisco to > Denver or vice versa. The Empire Builder also should be an eye > opening experience. Just as there are highway drives with breath > taking scenery, there are rail trips that are well worth taking. > > >Public transport gives a VERY poor facsimile of the experience. I would prefer the panorama that spreads out before me from my plane on such a route. I would presume, however. that the CA Zephyr should provide some spectacular scenery, as well. How about going from Ely, NV to Jackson Hole, WY? On one trip, I saw an orographic thunderstorm building along my planned route of flight. A simple left adjustment of a few degrees avoided the storm, but gave us some spectacular views! In less than 10 minutes, the storm had grown from a few billowing clouds into a nasty-looking T-storm, with lightning lighting up the whole cloud. We were several miles to the north, in the clear and going at 160 knots. -- Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.
From: Daniel W. Rouse Jr. on 12 Nov 2009 00:12 "Scott in SoCal" <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:o63nf59dnq0ulavsfh5glhcecjl6i7hul6(a)4ax.com... > Last time on rec.autos.driving, russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew > Russotto) said: > >>>Heh - you call sitting in a traffic jam "freedom of movement?" >> >>What an idiotic straw man. > > No more idiotic than trying to claim that automobiles provide freedom > of movement to go anywhere at any time. Car drivers are as much a > slave to other peoples' schedules as transit riders. You're totally wrong about that. I've driven to/from work, I've done the all-transit trips to/from work when my car has needed major repairs, and I've done the combo drive to the park and ride and then transit to and from work. Driving *is* total freedom, even in some cases where transit may actually get to/from work faster. You mention getting stuck in a traffic jam, and being jammed in traffic isn't good. But in a car, one can use alternate routes if the main route is impacted by traffic--exit the freeway and use side streets for example, or take a freeway bypass instead of the main freeway, or take a toll road. In a light rail vehicle, the rails are the route. In a transit bus, the route is usually fixed and usually doesn't detour significantly just because of traffic jams. (BRT routes tend to use freeway HOV lanes, but not all bus routes are designed as bus rapid transit.) Light rail and transit buses run on fixed schedules/frequencies. Miss a run, it could be a 15 minutes, 30 minutes or 1 hour wait for the next run. Driving, one can leave as early or as late as they choose to, depending on traffic conditions, and there isn't the issue of missing a fixed schedule/frequency transit vehicle run. Lunch time! One didn't bring their lunch? Unless bus service is excellent near their workplace, plan on eating at the employee cafeteria, or else either walking or getting a ride from someone if they want to go out to eat. This isn't an issue when driving. Choose where to go based on food choice and traffic conditions, then just drive there, get lunch, and drive back. After work... what about those 24 hour transit schedules? Very few if any exist, so now have to worry about last buses/trains home if working late or simply want to do something after work. Driving, not an issue, just go whereever, for however long, and drive home when done. Driving, work as late as needed, the ride home their own vehicle in the employee parking lot whenever work is done. Then there's weekends. Some buses/trains don't run on weekends, or if they do, on a lesser frequency and even a reduced schedule when compared to the weekday. Driving... what schedule? Only the place of business open/close hours matter, otherwise, drive whereever, whenever. Finally, how about longer trips? San Diego to Los Angeles, on a weekend, some place like Universal Studios Hollywood or Six Flags Magic Mountain, for example. Driving time, about 2 hours, maybe 2.5 hours with a traffic jam or two. Transit time, close to 4 hours easily, plus multiple vehicle transfers are involved, plus possible fare upgrades for interagency transfers. (Roughly speaking, one will have to transfer from San Diego MTS to NCTD, then transfer to either Greyhound or Metrolink for the shortest transfer/travel time--or transfer to OCTA for an even longer transfer/travel time--then eventually transfer to Metro). Once there via transit, one has to worry about having to limit time at a destination because of last transit routes home. Driving? Stay as long as one wants to stay, with the freedom to leave whenever and drive home. Therefore, car drivers are definitely not a "slave" to anyone's schedules when compared to transit riders.
From: Brent on 12 Nov 2009 10:44
On 2009-11-12, Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Last time on rec.autos.driving, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." ><dwrousejr(a)nethere.comNOSPAM> said: > >>You also failed to address the remaining points that showed how driving was >>total freedom compared to transit > > There's that ridiculous word "total" again. > > I collect DVDs. There's a great DVD store a few miles north of here > called DVDPlanet (on Beach Boulevard in Huntington Beach). There was a > time when I could hop in the car after work and head up there to do > some shopping. Not anymore; if I try to take the 405 N any time before > 8 PM it's so jammed that the trip just isn't worth it. > > That is NOT *total* freedom. I have to put just as much planning into > some car trips as I would into a train or a bus trip. > > Why can't you car slaves be honest? If people knew how to drive it wouldn't be sucha an issue. I started delaying my bicycling and trips made by bicycle to times of less traffic simply because of hostile, rude, and stupid drivers. Guess what? I still encountered a few, just a lot fewer of them. It's the same with transit...or at least it used to be... jammed full of people where you can't even get a seat unless you put even more planning to time your trips when it was less used. But here's something to consider with transit, if you have your car you pretty much know you'll be able to get back. What happens when the transit line shuts down at 9 or 10pm and you have to go back at 11pm? Then there is the fact that instead of sitting in traffic for an hour it might be mean spending two or more hours waiting around after arriving and/or before leaving. |