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From: DavidR on 30 Jun 2010 20:04
"Chris Whelan" <cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote

> Right at the beginning, I said:

> "In even moderately humid conditions, water will condense on the
> evaporator. (That's why you see puddles under cars with A/C.) If the
> system is only used infrequently, for short periods of time, the
> condensed water doesn't dry out and encourages bacterial growth on the
> outside of the evaporator. This is what smells. It actually makes perfect
> sense, and IME, does happen."

Yes, it is known an aircon exchanger condenses out water from humid air,
puddles appear under parked cars and that smelly things grow in damp
conditions.

But what has it got to do with?:-

(smells have)
// nothing to do with mileage, or the length of journeys, and everything to
do with the amount of time the vehicle is left unused
between journeys.//

So far that I can gather, it seems that if the system is switched off wet it
never dries out and as a result smelly stuff grows unchecked. Then, when the
system is running again (for however short a time), the smelly stuff is
killed off. If that is what you mean I have holes to pick. If it isn't, what
did you mean?

> It's certainly added more to helping understand a solution than any
> single thing you have contributed...

I have not been able to contribute for the simple reason that I am asking
you to explain a statement you provided and until you provide something to
bite on it remains impossible to enter into a dialogue. Please give
reasoning or realise that you pressed send before engaging brain. Then we
can cease this bun fight.

When I first read what you wrote I genuinely thought "Oh, this chap seems
pretty positive about it, what else can he offer?". Well, let's just say my
initial optimism has been shown to be misplaced.



From: Chris Whelan on 1 Jul 2010 04:13
On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:04:20 +0100, DavidR wrote:

> "Chris Whelan" <cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote
>
>> Right at the beginning, I said:
>
>> "In even moderately humid conditions, water will condense on the
>> evaporator. (That's why you see puddles under cars with A/C.) If the
>> system is only used infrequently, for short periods of time, the
>> condensed water doesn't dry out and encourages bacterial growth on the
>> outside of the evaporator. This is what smells. It actually makes
>> perfect sense, and IME, does happen."
>
> Yes, it is known an aircon exchanger condenses out water from humid air,
> puddles appear under parked cars and that smelly things grow in damp
> conditions.
>
> But what has it got to do with?:-
>
> (smells have)
> // nothing to do with mileage, or the length of journeys, and everything
> to do with the amount of time the vehicle is left unused between
> journeys.//
>
> So far that I can gather, it seems that if the system is switched off
> wet it never dries out and as a result smelly stuff grows unchecked.
> Then, when the system is running again (for however short a time), the
> smelly stuff is killed off. If that is what you mean I have holes to
> pick. If it isn't, what did you mean?

No, the problem is that once the bacterial growth has happened, it
*doesn't* get killed off. It's really difficult to get rid of. Dealers
and A/C specialists have a technique using an aerosol that discharges
over a short period inside the car to kill the bacteria, and you can buy
a similar product from Halfrauds et al. If the vehicle is used every day,
there is less time for the growth to occur.

>> It's certainly added more to helping understand a solution than any
>> single thing you have contributed...
>
> I have not been able to contribute for the simple reason that I am
> asking you to explain a statement you provided and until you provide
> something to bite on it remains impossible to enter into a dialogue.

Funny, you seem to be managing that quite well...

> Please give reasoning or realise that you pressed send before engaging
> brain. Then we can cease this bun fight.

It's inevitable in such a long, pointless thread that one party will
eventually degenerate into abuse. This is always the one loosing the
argument.

Looks like you blinked first...

> When I first read what you wrote I genuinely thought "Oh, this chap
> seems pretty positive about it, what else can he offer?". Well, let's
> just say my initial optimism has been shown to be misplaced.

I proffered what I, and I believe others, would see as a perfectly
plausible explanation for the phenomenon. I did this based on personal
experience, on the experience of others from the internet, and on a
conversation with someone in the trade. What more was needed? What you
have done is said that I haven't provided sufficient proof. So what? If
that's a problem to you, why not come up with an alternative, together
with some proof, instead of just repeating yourself?

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.
From: DavidR on 1 Jul 2010 19:25
"Chris Whelan" <cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:04:20 +0100, DavidR wrote:
>> "Chris Whelan" <cawhelan(a)prejudicentlworld.com> wrote

> No, the problem is that once the bacterial growth has happened, it
> *doesn't* get killed off. It's really difficult to get rid of.

Hey, are we near the end of the beginning?

> If the vehicle is used every day, there is less time for the growth to
> occur.

You say this. It is the thing you are having trouble explaining.

What is happening when the car is not in use? Does stuff grow even after the
system has dried out? Discount external humid or damp conditions here - if
it's as bad as that the whole car will be riddled.

Why does using of car discourage growth? Just concentrate on normal use, not
special attempts to blast air through. After all, it is normal use that
causes the aircon to get wet in the first place.

> I proffered what I, and I believe others, would see as a perfectly
> plausible explanation for the phenomenon. I did this based on personal
> experience, on the experience of others from the internet, and on a
> conversation with someone in the trade. What more was needed?

No, you have only said the smelly stuff forms because aircon get damp.
Unfortunately, saying why it forms doesn't help in a discussion about how to
control it.

I would suggest "control" means keeping it dry as much as possible. Well, if
the car is not used it will eventually dry out, whereas regular use will top
up the damp after each journey. Won't it?

Lets take your scenario. Even if drying out had a half life of 7 days, the
car doing a single journey in a week must harbour less damp on average than
the car used once a day. Won't it?

> What you
> have done is said that I haven't provided sufficient proof. So what?

The car world is full of folklore. Advice, instructions or edicts are often
given that have no solid basis. Or it can also be the case that there is a
sound basis, technically, but the commonly reported version is somewhat
removed from
the true version. It is useful to be able to identify all these.

> If
> that's a problem to you, why not come up with an alternative, together
> with some proof, instead of just repeating yourself?

What am I repeating, apart from asking you for an explanation? I am just an
empty vessel waiting to be filled.




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