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From: Stu on 24 Jun 2010 18:38
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:25:41 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <co97265m0seku1tsg0v1i0nmq846gmhai9(a)4ax.com>,
> Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
>> All the fuel injected cars I've seen will switch the pump on for a
>> couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on, to pressurise the
>> injectors.
>
>My early Rover with EFI doesn't. Operating the starter does, though.
>
Stand corrected. I have experience of Nissan, Toyota, Bosch and Ford
systems, which all behaved as described so I just thought it was the
usual case.

>> This being the case, couldn't you do a simple test of the wiring,
>> relay & fuse by substituting the fuel pump for a headlight bulb? Flick
>> the ignition on and if it lights up nice and bright, you have a
>> healthy power supply to your pump. The other advantage to using a
>> bulb, besides providing a quick indication, is that it will draw a few
>> amps of current and prove your connections are good.
>
>If it does run the pump when you switch the ignition on you should be able
>to hear it - perhaps from outside the car.

This I know - it's how I came to understand the above. ;-) You're
quite right to point it out, though.

I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the OP had already tried
listening for the pump and was now beginning fault diagnosis by
confirming the power supply and/or testing the pump on a seperate
source.
From: Dave Plowman (News) on 24 Jun 2010 19:08
In article <o6n726pvr5c10mupa0boh9oe3p1moncmrn(a)4ax.com>,
Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:25:41 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> >In article <co97265m0seku1tsg0v1i0nmq846gmhai9(a)4ax.com>,
> > Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
> >> All the fuel injected cars I've seen will switch the pump on for a
> >> couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on, to pressurise the
> >> injectors.
> >
> >My early Rover with EFI doesn't. Operating the starter does, though.
> >
> Stand corrected. I have experience of Nissan, Toyota, Bosch and Ford
> systems, which all behaved as described so I just thought it was the
> usual case.

The Lucas/Bosch system was the first EFI in the UK - and they reckoned it
would hold pressure for a long time. As it will when perfect. But even if
it doesn't, not much cranking is needed.

> >> This being the case, couldn't you do a simple test of the wiring,
> >> relay & fuse by substituting the fuel pump for a headlight bulb? Flick
> >> the ignition on and if it lights up nice and bright, you have a
> >> healthy power supply to your pump. The other advantage to using a
> >> bulb, besides providing a quick indication, is that it will draw a few
> >> amps of current and prove your connections are good.
> >
> >If it does run the pump when you switch the ignition on you should be
> >able to hear it - perhaps from outside the car.

> This I know - it's how I came to understand the above. ;-) You're
> quite right to point it out, though.

> I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the OP had already tried
> listening for the pump and was now beginning fault diagnosis by
> confirming the power supply and/or testing the pump on a seperate
> source.

There are many options for testing it. And just as many possible faults.
;-)

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: john hamilton on 27 Jun 2010 19:31

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:512c9f1062dave(a)davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <o6n726pvr5c10mupa0boh9oe3p1moncmrn(a)4ax.com>,
> Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:25:41 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <dave(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >In article <co97265m0seku1tsg0v1i0nmq846gmhai9(a)4ax.com>,
>> > Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
>> >> All the fuel injected cars I've seen will switch the pump on for a
>> >> couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on, to pressurise the
>> >> injectors.
>> >
>> >My early Rover with EFI doesn't. Operating the starter does, though.
>> >
>> Stand corrected. I have experience of Nissan, Toyota, Bosch and Ford
>> systems, which all behaved as described so I just thought it was the
>> usual case.
>
> The Lucas/Bosch system was the first EFI in the UK - and they reckoned it
> would hold pressure for a long time. As it will when perfect. But even if
> it doesn't, not much cranking is needed.
>
>> >> This being the case, couldn't you do a simple test of the wiring,
>> >> relay & fuse by substituting the fuel pump for a headlight bulb? Flick
>> >> the ignition on and if it lights up nice and bright, you have a
>> >> healthy power supply to your pump. The other advantage to using a
>> >> bulb, besides providing a quick indication, is that it will draw a few
>> >> amps of current and prove your connections are good.
>> >
>> >If it does run the pump when you switch the ignition on you should be
>> >able to hear it - perhaps from outside the car.
>
>> This I know - it's how I came to understand the above. ;-) You're
>> quite right to point it out, though.
>
>> I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the OP had already tried
>> listening for the pump and was now beginning fault diagnosis by
>> confirming the power supply and/or testing the pump on a seperate
>> source.
>
> There are many options for testing it. And just as many possible faults.
> ;-)
>
> --
> *When the going gets tough, use duct tape
>
> Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to all. It turned out to be be: 1. i didnt test *properly* to see if
current was going to pump.(either meter was playing up or probes didnt go in
properly to make contact). So after advice i thought it was the relay or
something. But checking more carefully the current was getting through to
the pump. Taking the pump out, it turns out the contact on the top of the
pump had been shorting out, in the process; destroying the contacts and
inside the plastic housing.

this makes me think if contacts were sparking inside the petrol tank, am i
lucky to still be here?

thanks for all the help.


From: Mrcheerful on 28 Jun 2010 02:55
john hamilton wrote:
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:512c9f1062dave(a)davenoise.co.uk...
>> In article <o6n726pvr5c10mupa0boh9oe3p1moncmrn(a)4ax.com>,
>> Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:25:41 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>> <dave(a)davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> In article <co97265m0seku1tsg0v1i0nmq846gmhai9(a)4ax.com>,
>>>> Stu <no(a)spam.com> wrote:
>>>>> All the fuel injected cars I've seen will switch the pump on for a
>>>>> couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on, to pressurise the
>>>>> injectors.
>>>>
>>>> My early Rover with EFI doesn't. Operating the starter does,
>>>> though.
>>> Stand corrected. I have experience of Nissan, Toyota, Bosch and Ford
>>> systems, which all behaved as described so I just thought it was the
>>> usual case.
>>
>> The Lucas/Bosch system was the first EFI in the UK - and they
>> reckoned it would hold pressure for a long time. As it will when
>> perfect. But even if it doesn't, not much cranking is needed.
>>
>>>>> This being the case, couldn't you do a simple test of the wiring,
>>>>> relay & fuse by substituting the fuel pump for a headlight bulb?
>>>>> Flick the ignition on and if it lights up nice and bright, you
>>>>> have a healthy power supply to your pump. The other advantage to
>>>>> using a bulb, besides providing a quick indication, is that it
>>>>> will draw a few amps of current and prove your connections are
>>>>> good.
>>>>
>>>> If it does run the pump when you switch the ignition on you should
>>>> be able to hear it - perhaps from outside the car.
>>
>>> This I know - it's how I came to understand the above. ;-) You're
>>> quite right to point it out, though.
>>
>>> I had assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the OP had already tried
>>> listening for the pump and was now beginning fault diagnosis by
>>> confirming the power supply and/or testing the pump on a seperate
>>> source.
>>
>> There are many options for testing it. And just as many possible
>> faults. ;-)
>>
>> --
>> *When the going gets tough, use duct tape
>>
>> Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
>> To e-mail, change noise into sound.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks to all. It turned out to be be: 1. i didnt test *properly* to
> see if current was going to pump.(either meter was playing up or
> probes didnt go in properly to make contact). So after advice i
> thought it was the relay or something. But checking more carefully
> the current was getting through to the pump. Taking the pump out, it
> turns out the contact on the top of the pump had been shorting out,
> in the process; destroying the contacts and inside the plastic
> housing.
> this makes me think if contacts were sparking inside the petrol tank,
> am i lucky to still be here?
>
> thanks for all the help.

petrol is quite fussy about the concentrations that it will explode in and
the conditions inside a tank are far too rich to go bang. Now if it had
been acetylene..........


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