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From: T i m on 6 Aug 2010 07:48
Hi,

Potential SIL has recently bought an old (83,YN65 3Y) but fairly well
loved for most of it's life Toyota HiLux 4x4, 2L petrol with just over
100K miles on the clock.

He's just driven it back down from Scotland to Herts, admittedly
fairly well loaded (and probably not very 'gently' knowing him) and it
took a couple of litres of oil to take it back up to full (he /said/
it was on full before he left).

He also suggested (and I noticed when replacing the exhaust manifold
gasket with him recently) that it's leaking a bit of oil and it looks
like it's mainly around the clutch bell so I'm thinking rear crank
seal?

So, assuming it's the problem and there's nothing else back there that
could show similar, has anyone actually done that job on that vehicle
/ lump and if so what sort of job is it please?

Sorry the info is a bit scant but it's currently in Kent and won't be
back till Sat night. I'm just trying to get a feeling re what it might
be and how easy it might be to resolve (I recently swapped the gearbox
on my MkII Escort based kitcar and it looked fairly similar under
there apart from all the 4WD stuff. At least we wouldn't need ramps ..
). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Talking of not needing ramps. He needs a towbar to tow amongst's
other things a log splitter and whilst there is a rear bumper that
looks like it could be a tow bar (as it has two two ball spaced and
sized (16mm dia) tubed holes through it and is pretty substantial)
it's currently a good 500 mm from the ground (with a reasonable load
on board). Now I understand the guidelines say the tow ball should be
between 350 and 420mmfrom the ground (vehicle laden, let's' say 385
ideal) so allowing for about 75 mm from the tow ball bolt centres to
the centre of the ball that makes a drop plate to be around ~200 mm
(8")? Not only does that seem quite a bit in general but complicates
how you would fix any such drop plate (turning forces etc).[1]

I contacted one of the few Co's who can still supply bars for such
(old) vehicles and the key dimensions of their bar seemed to tie up
with what's on there now. They therefore suggested that the vehicle
could have been 'lifted' bit if it has we can't see any signs of how
(no lifting blocks, long shackles, monster tyres etc. A lifted body
wouldn't affect the tow bar height as it bolts to the chassis).

We did get a quick look at what we believe is the next model of HiLux
and it looked similar if not the same height. <shrug>

Failing any luck here I'll get him to get back on some of the 4x4 /
HiLux forums.

p.p.s. Being that old it doesn't need any type approval re towbars.
;-)

[1] I was considering two drop plates, front and back of the bar,
spaced at the top by the towbar itself (85mm) and at the bottom by two
suitable fabricated_from_box or turned spacers. Because of the extra
height of the towball itself it it's only actually 'extended' about
~120 mm and whilst it might not look out of proportion compared with
many other 4x4 type towing arrangements I'm wondering how it came to
be needing such adaption?


From: Grimly Curmudgeon on 8 Aug 2010 08:21
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> saying
something like:

>p.s. Talking of not needing ramps. He needs a towbar to tow amongst's
>other things a log splitter and whilst there is a rear bumper that
>looks like it could be a tow bar (as it has two two ball spaced and
>sized (16mm dia) tubed holes through it and is pretty substantial)
>it's currently a good 500 mm from the ground (with a reasonable load
>on board). Now I understand the guidelines say the tow ball should be
>between 350 and 420mmfrom the ground (vehicle laden, let's' say 385
>ideal) so allowing for about 75 mm from the tow ball bolt centres to
>the centre of the ball that makes a drop plate to be around ~200 mm
>(8")? Not only does that seem quite a bit in general but complicates
>how you would fix any such drop plate (turning forces etc).[1]

Fit a drop plate with two arms running from the bottom of it to a place
on the chassis legs. I've seen it done on many of these high towbars.
From: T i m on 8 Aug 2010 09:07
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:21:08 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimly4REMOVE(a)REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

>We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> saying
>something like:
>
>>p.s. Talking of not needing ramps. He needs a towbar to tow amongst's
>>other things a log splitter and whilst there is a rear bumper that
>>looks like it could be a tow bar (as it has two two ball spaced and
>>sized (16mm dia) tubed holes through it and is pretty substantial)
>>it's currently a good 500 mm from the ground (with a reasonable load
>>on board). Now I understand the guidelines say the tow ball should be
>>between 350 and 420mmfrom the ground (vehicle laden, let's' say 385
>>ideal) so allowing for about 75 mm from the tow ball bolt centres to
>>the centre of the ball that makes a drop plate to be around ~200 mm
>>(8")? Not only does that seem quite a bit in general but complicates
>>how you would fix any such drop plate (turning forces etc).[1]
>
>Fit a drop plate with two arms running from the bottom of it to a place
>on the chassis legs. I've seen it done on many of these high towbars.

Hi and thanks, I think that's what we are going to have to do.

We went to an Arb show yesterday and there were quite a few Hi-Li (and
other 4x4 trucks for that matter) but all the Hi-Li seemed to have
either what you suggest or 'f-off_heavy' side plates, gussets and
braces all contained within the same assembly.

Luckily (in a way) none of would be covered by the towbar type
approval (pre 1st August 1998) but would (of course) still need to be
considered appropriate (although how you could actually determine that
I don't know).

I think tow bars are now included in the MOT but is that for /all/ tow
bars do we know (inc pre type approval)?

If so I guess they would be looking to see they were attached soundly
and be in god condition (not rusted away etc).

Cheers, T i m
From: Mrcheerful on 8 Aug 2010 15:57
T i m wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:21:08 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
> <grimly4REMOVE(a)REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>> drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> saying
>> something like:
>>
>>> p.s. Talking of not needing ramps. He needs a towbar to tow
>>> amongst's other things a log splitter and whilst there is a rear
>>> bumper that looks like it could be a tow bar (as it has two two
>>> ball spaced and sized (16mm dia) tubed holes through it and is
>>> pretty substantial) it's currently a good 500 mm from the ground
>>> (with a reasonable load on board). Now I understand the guidelines
>>> say the tow ball should be between 350 and 420mmfrom the ground
>>> (vehicle laden, let's' say 385 ideal) so allowing for about 75 mm
>>> from the tow ball bolt centres to the centre of the ball that makes
>>> a drop plate to be around ~200 mm (8")? Not only does that seem
>>> quite a bit in general but complicates how you would fix any such
>>> drop plate (turning forces etc).[1]
>>
>> Fit a drop plate with two arms running from the bottom of it to a
>> place on the chassis legs. I've seen it done on many of these high
>> towbars.
>
> Hi and thanks, I think that's what we are going to have to do.
>
> We went to an Arb show yesterday and there were quite a few Hi-Li (and
> other 4x4 trucks for that matter) but all the Hi-Li seemed to have
> either what you suggest or 'f-off_heavy' side plates, gussets and
> braces all contained within the same assembly.
>
> Luckily (in a way) none of would be covered by the towbar type
> approval (pre 1st August 1998) but would (of course) still need to be
> considered appropriate (although how you could actually determine that
> I don't know).
>
> I think tow bars are now included in the MOT but is that for /all/ tow
> bars do we know (inc pre type approval)?
>
> If so I guess they would be looking to see they were attached soundly
> and be in god condition (not rusted away etc).
>
> Cheers, T i m

older vehicle tow bar mot check is just that it looks vaguely safe and is
fixed on tight.


From: T i m on 10 Aug 2010 05:25
On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 20:57:39 +0100, "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:


>> I think tow bars are now included in the MOT but is that for /all/ tow
>> bars do we know (inc pre type approval)?
>>
>> If so I guess they would be looking to see they were attached soundly
>> and be in god condition (not rusted away etc).
>>
>
>older vehicle tow bar mot check is just that it looks vaguely safe and is
>fixed on tight.
>
Thanks (and about all they could do I guess).

We still haven't actually done anything constructive about the bar
(waiting on a phone call right now).

The big issue seems to be if this existing bar is suitable and the
general consensus seems to think it's not (and I'd agree, 'as is' but
that's not how we would leave it).

The thing is, if a 'production' towbar has a main cross member (that
carries the ball) of 60x40x3mm, how would the existing bar of 75mm
diameter, 4mm thick wall compare over the same length? In fact it's
'doubled up' at the mounting brackets so you have two x 74mm tubes
welded together and when we took it off yesterday it weighted a tonne
so is not just 'decorative'. ;-)

The current tube is bolted to the sides of the chassis using a very
wide and contoured 8mm plate. The production towbar uses 60x60x6mm
angle and whilst I can see that would be stiffer horizontally (side
loads on the bar) it may not be as stiff vertically and certainly not
as stiff all round as the existing plates with diagonal braces back to
the chassis. Both bars bolt to the chassis using the same two bolts in
the same two (existing) holes (x 2 sides).

The main problem is both this and the only production offering we have
had so far (for that model) would leave the tow ball some 200+mm too
high and any drop-plate that big would also need considerable bracing
at the bottom. Some of the heavier 4 hole adjustable plates might be
ok but they are also expensive and overkill for this scenario (he
can't tow anything heavier than 750kg without doing an additional (and
expensive) 'trailer' test). The log splitter he has is 350kg gross, as
is the small trailer they have up there.

If he did go with the modded bar he would remove it if he sold the
truck.

Cheers, T i m

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