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From: Tim S on 9 Feb 2007 17:29
Ivan wrote:

> It seems totally ironic that diesels like my ex 17 year-old Astra,
> manufactured before people started to worry about the environment, could
> quite happily run on 100 per cent Bio-diesel. Yet there are warnings in
> the handbook about using any more than a five per cent mixture in my less
> than five-year-old focus!
>

Yes, why is that? My Touran has the same warning - I was wondering what that
was all about? I agree it seems ironic, though only academically as
Monsieur Brown will never allow bio-diesel to take an economic advantage.

Cheers

Tim
From: Pete Smith on 11 Feb 2007 04:42
In article <45ccf5c4$0$762$5a6aecb4(a)news.aaisp.net.uk>, ts(a)dionic.net
says...
> Ivan wrote:
>
> > It seems totally ironic that diesels like my ex 17 year-old Astra,
> > manufactured before people started to worry about the environment, could
> > quite happily run on 100 per cent Bio-diesel. Yet there are warnings in
> > the handbook about using any more than a five per cent mixture in my less
> > than five-year-old focus!
> >
>
> Yes, why is that? My Touran has the same warning - I was wondering what that
> was all about?

The high pressure diesel pumps require diesel of the correct spec. Putting
more than 5% biodiesel takes the diesel out of spec, and it can kill the
pump.

Allegedly.

Pete.
From: Adrian on 11 Feb 2007 04:51
Pete Smith (pete_news(a)lethe.org.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

>> > It seems totally ironic that diesels like my ex 17 year-old Astra,
>> > manufactured before people started to worry about the environment,
>> > could quite happily run on 100 per cent Bio-diesel. Yet there are
>> > warnings in the handbook about using any more than a five per cent
>> > mixture in my less than five-year-old focus!

>> Yes, why is that? My Touran has the same warning - I was wondering
>> what that was all about?

> The high pressure diesel pumps require diesel of the correct spec.

With you so far...

> Putting more than 5% biodiesel takes the diesel out of spec, and it
> can kill the pump.

Not necessarily. Biodiesel has the lubricity that petrol lacks - and it's
the lack of lubrication that kills the very high pressure pumps on common
rail diesels.

CRDs are still able to run on higher than 5% biodiesel mixes - Cit put out
a press release last year that all their press fleet is run on 30%
From: Grimly Curmudgeon on 11 Feb 2007 08:42
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Ivan" <Ivan'H'older(a)yahoo.co.uk>
saying something like:

>It seems totally ironic that diesels like my ex 17 year-old Astra,
>manufactured before people started to worry about the environment, could
>quite happily run on 100 per cent Bio-diesel. Yet there are warnings in the
>handbook about using any more than a five per cent mixture in my less than
>five-year-old focus!

It's more to do with the seals and rubber tubes. BD can attack older
rubber, but if you replace the rubbery bits with Viton (a fluropolymer)
they are quite resistant to BD. Fwiw, I've been running my 01 Tranny on
BD for thousands of miles with no problems, and the handbook mentions
the 5% max. VW diesels are generally ok with BD also, leaving the
factory with Viton rubber.
--

Dave
SE6a
From: Bob Smith on 11 Feb 2007 11:06

"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly4REMOVE(a)REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:m27us21c51qqqggurhpcppln55vtd2g4va(a)4ax.com...
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Ivan" <Ivan'H'older(a)yahoo.co.uk>
> saying something like:
>
>>It seems totally ironic that diesels like my ex 17 year-old Astra,
>>manufactured before people started to worry about the environment, could
>>quite happily run on 100 per cent Bio-diesel. Yet there are warnings in
>>the
>>handbook about using any more than a five per cent mixture in my less than
>>five-year-old focus!
>
> It's more to do with the seals and rubber tubes. BD can attack older
> rubber, but if you replace the rubbery bits with Viton (a fluropolymer)
> they are quite resistant to BD. Fwiw, I've been running my 01 Tranny on
> BD for thousands of miles with no problems, and the handbook mentions
> the 5% max. VW diesels are generally ok with BD also, leaving the
> factory with Viton rubber.
> --
Those rubber seals and tubes are the same ones that dry out and break down
when low and ultra low sulphur diesel is used, so hopefully the cars that
would have a problem with BD will have already been culled or refitted by
now.

Not sure why Ford say 5% max - if the engine runs on ULSD, it should run on
pure BD. Probably don't want to spend any money testing, but the French
have been running on 5% BD for a while now, so have tested that mix for
them.

Bob


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