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From: Dave Plowman (News) on 30 Oct 2007 09:35
In article <5oolehFo198oU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
Willy Eckerslyke <oss108no_spam(a)bangor.ac.uk> wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> >> Anyone know if it's really necessary to use the special tool
> >> mentioned in the (Haynes) manual for resetting the rear brakes on a
> >> Rover P6? I need to change the pads, a job I've not done before on
> >> this one.
> >
> > No - you can do it with your fingers. They'll bleed for some time
> > afterwards...

> I'm used to that.

;-)

> > Slacken the rear final drive mounting nuts down to the ends of the
> > thread - that will give adequate clearance to get at them.

> That's handy, I need to replace one of the mounting bushes anyway, so
> can combine both jobs. Thanks for the tip.

Can you now get them? It was one reason I got rid of mine in the mid '80s
- the various Metalistic mountings were like hen's teeth. Think I paid 50
quid for one.

> > Clean the 'piston' thoroughly before attempting to wind back in -
> > remember it's a mechanical device at this point not hydraulic so can
> > be lubricated sparingly with ordinary oil. If they are really stiff
> > remove the calipers, dismantle and clean up/lubricate the mechanism.
> > In good condition it is one of the best handbrakes fitted to any car
> > ever.

> Indeed. As is probably all too common, the pads have worn right down so
> I'm expecting the pistons to put up a fight. As I'm replacing the front
> callipers and will be bleeding the system, removing the rears to clean
> up on the bench won't be any great hardship.

In which case winding them back will be easy. Although the caliper pivots
can fight a bit when trying to remove them.
I hope you have a WS manual - the handbrake mechanism inside the caliper
is a bit complicated to understand. Or was to me.

> I thought I may as well switch to silicone brake fluid too while I'm at
> it. You haven't heard anything about P6s disliking it have you?
> It's worked well in my Triumph for quite a few years.

Hmm. I've often heard bad things about it. If you change ordinary fluid
regularly - every two years or so - you'll not have rusting problems
anyway.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Dave Plowman (News) on 30 Oct 2007 09:38
In article <13ie0r9d5ecpc38(a)corp.supernews.com>,
Mike G <metier(a)lycos.co.uk> wrote:
> If you mean the Girling tool for winding the automatic adjuster back
> into the piston, it's not necessary. IIRC it's easier to remove the
> caliper and wind it in by hand. I have the tool, and found it slow and
> frustrating to use. Keeps slipping off etc.

Yes. Easier to use if the whole car was up on a ramp or you have a decent
pit. Tricky lying underneath. If it had a proper ratchet it would be
easier - pulling the lever out to move it round a notch pulls off the
tool. As it were, missus.

--
*Indian Driver - Smoke signals only*

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Willy Eckerslyke on 30 Oct 2007 10:24
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>> That's handy, I need to replace one of the mounting bushes anyway, so
>> can combine both jobs. Thanks for the tip.
>
> Can you now get them? It was one reason I got rid of mine in the mid '80s
> - the various Metalistic mountings were like hen's teeth. Think I paid 50
> quid for one.

They're all available from Wadham's, but aren't cheap. That particular
bush was 20 quid + VAT and isn't genuine Metalastic. That, I believe is
the problem, so folk are switching to polyurethane bushes to get around
quality issues. They do turn up occasionally on eBay, where the same
people always seem to end up bidding against each other.

> I hope you have a WS manual - the handbrake mechanism inside the caliper
> is a bit complicated to understand. Or was to me.

Hmm, I've only got a Haynes. Better make sure I photograph it all as it
comes apart.

>> I thought I may as well switch to silicone brake fluid too while I'm at
>> it. You haven't heard anything about P6s disliking it have you?
>> It's worked well in my Triumph for quite a few years.
>
> Hmm. I've often heard bad things about it.

So have I. But I've also used it without any problems so aren't too
bothered by general mutterings. However if someone's specifically had
trouble with a P6's servo and silicone fluid, for example, I'd certainly
take notice.
One point is that I changed all the Triumph's hoses and seals before
switching fluids, and I've heard that rubber that's been in contact with
DOT4 for a while doesn't take well to silicone. I'll only be replacing
the caliper and master cylinder seals on this one, which could be a risk.

> If you change ordinary fluid
> regularly - every two years or so - you'll not have rusting problems
> anyway.

Perhaps you don't remember where the bleed nipple is on the rear brakes.
Believe me, it's not somewhere I want to go on a regular basis!
From: Jim Warren on 30 Oct 2007 11:00
Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>>> That's handy, I need to replace one of the mounting bushes anyway, so
>>> can combine both jobs. Thanks for the tip.
>>
>> Can you now get them? It was one reason I got rid of mine in the mid '80s
>> - the various Metalistic mountings were like hen's teeth. Think I paid 50
>> quid for one.
>
> They're all available from Wadham's, but aren't cheap. That particular
> bush was 20 quid + VAT and isn't genuine Metalastic. That, I believe is
> the problem, so folk are switching to polyurethane bushes to get around
> quality issues. They do turn up occasionally on eBay, where the same
> people always seem to end up bidding against each other.
>
>> I hope you have a WS manual - the handbrake mechanism inside the caliper
>> is a bit complicated to understand. Or was to me.
>
> Hmm, I've only got a Haynes. Better make sure I photograph it all as it
> comes apart.
>
>>> I thought I may as well switch to silicone brake fluid too while I'm
>>> at it. You haven't heard anything about P6s disliking it have you?
>>> It's worked well in my Triumph for quite a few years.
>>
>> Hmm. I've often heard bad things about it.
>
> So have I. But I've also used it without any problems so aren't too
> bothered by general mutterings. However if someone's specifically had
> trouble with a P6's servo and silicone fluid, for example, I'd certainly
> take notice.
> One point is that I changed all the Triumph's hoses and seals before
> switching fluids, and I've heard that rubber that's been in contact with
> DOT4 for a while doesn't take well to silicone. I'll only be replacing
> the caliper and master cylinder seals on this one, which could be a risk.
>
>> If you change ordinary fluid
>> regularly - every two years or so - you'll not have rusting problems
>> anyway.
>
> Perhaps you don't remember where the bleed nipple is on the rear brakes.
> Believe me, it's not somewhere I want to go on a regular basis!

My PI was bought with DOT5 in and I have kept it like that. But I
wouldn't have bothered to make the change myself. And if you ever have
a garage do anything with the brakes, it is essential that you gave a
big *DOT5 Only* notice on your fluid reservoir. Because if DOT4 and
DOT5 ever get mixed in the same system it is a flush everything, replace
everything nightmare.

I have also heard that changing from DOT4 to DOT5 (or vice versa)
without changing *all* the seals and rubbers (Master cylinder too!) is a
recipe for premature failure. Unless you are going to be doing lots of
crash stops from high speed and need the higher spec fluid, it is
probably more trouble than it is worth to change.

Jim
From: Willy Eckerslyke on 30 Oct 2007 11:12
Jim Warren wrote:

> My PI was bought with DOT5 in and I have kept it like that. But I
> wouldn't have bothered to make the change myself. And if you ever have
> a garage do anything with the brakes, it is essential that you gave a
> big *DOT5 Only* notice on your fluid reservoir. Because if DOT4 and
> DOT5 ever get mixed in the same system it is a flush everything, replace
> everything nightmare.

It shouldn't be though, should it? I understood that one of the specs of
the DOT rating was that they had to be capable of being used together
safely. Obviously I'm not advocating mixing them as that removes all the
benefits of DOT5.

> I have also heard that changing from DOT4 to DOT5 (or vice versa)
> without changing *all* the seals and rubbers (Master cylinder too!) is a
> recipe for premature failure.

Yes, I'd heard too. Perhaps I'd best give a miss this time.

> Unless you are going to be doing lots of
> crash stops from high speed and need the higher spec fluid, it is
> probably more trouble than it is worth to change.

Erm, sorry to disagree again, but I'd have said those circumstances were
exactly when you _don't_ want DOT5's extra sponginess.
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