The Automobile Subsidy
in [Drive]
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From: Matthew Russotto on 5 Nov 2009 14:05 In article <Xns9CBA8D53CFED0wascana212com(a)94.75.244.46>, James Robinson <wascana(a)212.com> wrote: >russotto(a)grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) wrote: >> >> If we got rid of all transportation subsidies -- let's say including >> those derived from user fees -- and just bolt a magic meter in each >> car, transit would disappear almost entirely. So I'm not sure what >> "correct economic decisions" people could make, besides driving. Oh, >> if they're walking or riding bicycles, that gets metered too, though >> at a much lower rate. >> >> But in fact the lion's share of roads are already paid for by direct >> user fees, and the other things you claim are subsidies, like parking for >> customers and employees, are not subsidies. > >I wonder how much the magic meter would charge for driving through the Big >Dig in Boston, if the fee is intended to recover the full cost of the >facility? Perhaps you see that partially being charged to someone driving >a few blocks in North Adams who never uses the Big Dig in his life? If the magic meters existed and were the only way to pay for things, that particular boondoggle would have never been built. -- The problem with socialism is there's always someone with less ability and more need.
From: Clark F Morris on 5 Nov 2009 20:30 On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:11:06 -0400, Orval Fairbairn <o_r_fairbairn(a)earth_link.net> wrote: >In article <61p5f5pvqc5kjup6srt76gossfmt9h81m9(a)4ax.com>, > Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Brent >> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> said: >> >> >On 2009-11-05, Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Last time on rec.autos.driving, Brent >> >><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> said: >> >> >> >>>On 2009-11-04, Scott in SoCal <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>>Yeah, because transit is supported by all forms of taxation, not just >> >>>>>taxes aimed at transportation. >> >>> >> >>>> And you think roads are not? >> >>> >> >>>I've been over this already. >> >> >> >> So have I. See the first post this this thread, which clearly shows >> >> that the same is true for roads. >> > >> >It doesn't show much of anything really. The 'non-transportation' taxes >> >I pay that go to transit, go almost entirely to transit that is rather >> >distant from me >> >> "Proximity to Brent" is irrelevant. The fact remains, roads are >> supported by all forms of taxation, just like transit is. In some >> cases (Orange County Measure M) the same tax supports both. >> >> QED. > >... but roads are far more useful than transit -- anybody can use them; >they are compatible with the equipment that uses other roads; they have >direct access on a 24/7 schedule; their use doesn't depend on somebody >else's schedule. Try walking, bicycling or using a horse and buggy on a freeway (actually there are some where you can but not many). Try driving a car if you're blind. Transit isn't everything but for many it is useful.
From: Scott M. Kozel on 5 Nov 2009 20:56 Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: > > Orval Fairbairn <o_r_fairbairn(a)earth_link.net> wrote: > >> ... but roads are far more useful than transit -- anybody can use them; >> they are compatible with the equipment that uses other roads; they have >> direct access on a 24/7 schedule; their use doesn't depend on somebody >> else's schedule. > > Try walking, bicycling or using a horse and buggy on a freeway > (actually there are some where you can but not many). 99% of the public road mileage is non-limited-access. > Try driving a car if you're blind. You don't have to drive a car to travel in it. > Transit isn't everything but for many it is useful. Roads carry transit buses, car pools and van pools. -- Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
From: Scott M. Kozel on 5 Nov 2009 22:28 Larry Sheldon <lfsheldon(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Scott M. Kozel wrote: > >>> Transit isn't everything but for many it is useful. >> >> Roads carry transit buses, car pools and van pools. > > Finally! I've been wondering when you were going to get of the beer > trucks, bread trucks, gasoline trucks, meat trucks, vegetable trucks, > hay trucks, cattle trucks, grain trucks, moving trucks, ..... trucks. > > Good work. Well, yes, roads carry far more than just people ... they carry freight, and in nearly all cases their rights-of-way carry public utilities. -- Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
From: Bernd Felsche on 5 Nov 2009 22:49
"Scott M. Kozel" <kozelsm(a)comcast.net> wrote: >Clark F Morris <cfmpublic(a)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >> Orval Fairbairn <o_r_fairbairn(a)earth_link.net> wrote: >>> ... but roads are far more useful than transit -- anybody can >>> use them; they are compatible with the equipment that uses other >>> roads; they have direct access on a 24/7 schedule; their use >>> doesn't depend on somebody else's schedule. >> Try walking, bicycling or using a horse and buggy on a freeway >> (actually there are some where you can but not many). >99% of the public road mileage is non-limited-access. Source of stats? And how are the 99% measured? Are you indicating that there's a severe shortage of freeways? Because more than 80% of my travel distance is usually on restricted access roads. During vacations; I'd hazard a guess and make that 90%. >> Try driving a car if you're blind. >You don't have to drive a car to travel in it. >> Transit isn't everything but for many it is useful. >Roads carry transit buses, car pools and van pools. And swimming pools! -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Politics is the art of looking for trouble, X against HTML mail | finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly / \ and postings | and applying the wrong remedies - Groucho Marx |