From: Clot on
Jo wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> On 19 July, 08:49, Jo <joanna.hamilto...(a)> wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>> Apologies for being unclear as to the nature of the vehicle I was
>>> trying to overtake - it was a truck with a metal horse-box
>>> attached. I do not know if there were horses within the box as the
>>> slats on the wall were quite narrow.
>> And there is another problem, you shouldn't even have noticed the
>> slats, you should have been concentrating on the road and oncoming
>> traffic, not the contents of the trailer (or maybe trying to see the
>> horses inside).
>> The use of the word truck also suggests this was a pretty long
>> outfit, 25 foot or more, you need even more time and space for
>> overtaking then.
> From my recollection the truck with its horse carrier box was about as
> long as two vans but under the length of a container lorry.
>> Why was the "truck" going so slow, or is there more to this than you
>> have said (was it just moving off from a standstill for example) ?,
>> no way would I expect any truck and trailer combination to be doing
>> 20MPH unless it had a problem, was just setting off, or was in fact
>> in a 20MPH limit zone.
> It was certainly going as slow as that and I distinctly remember it
> was a 2nd gear speed.
>> Anyway, you've gained valuable experience, and also now know how to
>> pass a horse and carriage AND a horse trailer.
> I'll try not to be pressured by other drivers into doing something
> silly again.

Well done for being so frank and enquiring. You have gained some sound
advice from the "more mature" drivers here.

I have to say that I'm one of them.

I'll get my bus pass!

From: Clot on
Jo wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>> "Jo" <joanna.hamilton90(a)> wrote in message
>> news:cc357b2e-5fa8-446f-b65b-8c46eb71b8da(a)
>>> Hello all,
>>> I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :(
>>> Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately
>>> behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was about
>>> 150 yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built up
>>> behind me.
>>> I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. It was too slow
>>> for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to
>>> speed up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I sped up to
>>> about 30mph and was now astride the rear wheels of the vehicle. I
>>> fumbled the 2-3rd gear change (seemed stuck and cost me a few
>>> seconds to try again) and oncoming traffic lead by a truck was now
>>> too close. There was enough space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear
>>> change and didn't expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be
>>> closed up so quickly
>>> So having no choice I floored the accelerator to 60mph on 3rd gear.
>>> The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to make way for
>>> me and three vehicles were astride at one point.
>>> If you were in that situation what would you have done? I couldn't
>>> have gone back and it seems the only way was to get past and in
>>> front of the horse trailer.
>>> Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver and my
>>> confidence has been badly shaken today already :(
>>> Jo
>> The problem lies here "I felt pressured into overtaking ". As a much
>> more experienced driver I couldn't care how long I hold up traffic
>> behind me. If I'm not happy to go, I'm not going to go.
>> Alan
> Being too eager to not rock the boat or be an inconvenience to people
> is unfortunately part of my disposition. I'm trying to change that and
> grow a thicker skin though.

Having followed the two threads, I appreciate money is tight. After my
younger son passed his test (through a Driving School), I was not happy that
he could accommodate situations such as this and paid for him to go on the
Pass Plus course, which incidentally reduced his insurance premium.

I subsequently rode with him as he drove my car on a motorway and, by the
sound of it, the sort of roads you were on. It dramatically improved his
perception of road conditions. I can commend them.

I think the cost was circa �200.

Talk to your parents, they might cough up for their peace of mind!

From: Steve Firth on
Alex Heney <me8(a)> wrote:

> >Get your head out of your butt Heney.
> Thank you

You're welcome, butthead.
From: Dave Head on
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:02:21 -0700 (PDT), Jo
<joanna.hamilton90(a)> wrote:
>Thanks also for your post Dave. It was a real encouragement :)

You're welcome. You'll get the hang of it eventually. I'd think of
taking the advice of some and hunting up an instructor to drill you on
this important maneuver, since screwing it up is seriously not good.
Practice, practice, practice. And don't drive cars that have sticky
shifters. (Its too bad everyone can't buy a Subaru WRX - the shift on
that thing is sooooo smooth. Of course, you likely wouldn't have had
any sort of a problem passing, as the thing is pretty "scary fast.")

Dave Head
From: Dave Head on
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:51:35 +0100, Alex Heney <me8(a)>

>On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:01:41 -0400, Dave Head <rally2xs(a)>
>>On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:49:01 +0100, Alex Heney <me8(a)>
>>>On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 12:56:29 -0400, Dave Head <rally2xs(a)>
>>>>><shrug> You're allowed to have the wrong idea, I just hope I'm not
>>>>>around when you practice your brainwave of overtaking "as a surprise".
>>>>>Nothing you do should come as a surprise to anyone else on the road.
>>>>If you let everyone know what you're up to, a lot of times they use it
>>>>against you.
>>>If people "use it against you", then said people shouldn't be on the
>>Yeah. No kidding. So what? They're out there.
>So you drive defensively. Which does NOT mean not letting anybody know
>what you are going to do.

Yeah it does! <G>

>>>That is no excuse for driving like a pillock yourself by giving
>>>people no idea what you might be going to do.
>>Sure it is. Its called not giving the bastards the opportunity.
>It is called driving stupidly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell you what - you drive your car, I'll drive
>>See, if I don't let 'em know, they guy behind is left sitting there
>>saying to himeself, "Well, if I'd have known he was going to do that,
>>I woulda followed him and we could both have passed." But since he
>>doesn't know, he can't do that, at least not anywhere close so that if
>>I decide I DO need to hit the brakes and abort the pass, I don't have
>>his radiator cap up m tailpipe.
>>>> And, there's absolutely no value to those in the rear of
>>>>knowing you're going to pass. What are they gonna do about it, eh?
>>>I have on a number of occasions had fats powerful cars pull out from
>>>behind me to overtake both me and vehicles in front.
>>Not applicable. I'm not going to start a pass if someone is coming
>>from the rear like that.
>So now you are telepathic too.

No, I look in my rearview mirrors. Duh! If you don't know how to do
that, no wonder you think this is dangerous. Get a clue, learn to

>I'm not talking about situations where somebody is approaching fast, I
>am talking about situations where a queue of traffic has formed, but
>then they pull out to overtake in a place where it wouldn't be safe
>for me - either because they are stupid, or because they have a car
>powerful enough that it is safe for them to overtake two of us when it
>wouldn't be safe for me to overtake one.

Don't see any problem. If they are pulling out to pass in a place
where it isn't safe for me to pass, I'm not going to be pulling out
anyway, so there's no conflict, and will be no accident, unless the
other car screws up the pass. That of course is always a possiblity,
for which there is little defense.
>But if it is in a place where I think it *is* safe, and I pull out to
>overtake, they may be trying the same thing if I haven't indicated.

Like I said, look in your rearviews before pulling out. If someone is
approaching you fast from the rear, don't try to pass. If they
aren't, then there's not a problem, is there?

>>>If I had been pulling out to overate without warning, that would have
>>>resulted in my trying 6to occupy the same piece of road as them. Which
>>>doesn't work.
>>It would have been entirely your fault for failing to maintain
>>situational awareness.
>One day, you should learn a little about *safe* driving.

Been driving since 1963 - haven't run into anything yet...

>Everything you have said so far indicates that you are a danger on the

Yeah, this is typical usenet driving talk. Everybody thinks they're
the only one that can drive.

>The above would only be my fault AT ALL for not indicating.

Woulda been your fault for starting a pass when someone was coming up
fast from behind, and THAT will cause the accident, not the lack of a
flashy light...

>>>If I am going to overtake, and there is somebody behind me, I
>>>indicate, to make sure that doesn't happen.
>>You go right ahead. I watch what is going on in order to do the same
>If everybody drove like you, then you wouldn't have a clue what would
>be going on, because nobody would be giving any indication.

>>You're flaw is that you expect them not to attempt to overtake
>>simply 'cuz you make some little light flash. Ha! I don't trust 'em
>>that far. I'm going to do things for myself. I trust me a whale of a
>>lot more than I trust them.
>I don't "trust" them not to try it.

>I do trust them to at least be aware enough not to ram me in that

Flaw. You have to look, see the way is clear even from behind, and
then attempt whatever you're going to attempt only when the way is
SUPPOSED TO. Doing so increases the risk of making you dead.

> And if they are unaware enough to do so, then I know it
>would be all their fault.

I don't give a rip about "fault." I only care whether there is a
collision. I've been doing what I've been doing for a long time, and
not giving the bastards a chance to wreck me has worked every time.

>Hopefully with no more than damage to
>vehicles to show for their error.

I don't tolerate damage. I'm just not gonna let it happen.